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<DIV>Ted, since the ALF opposes hunting it can be considered an extremist
environmental group. It has, in fact, worked in tandem with ELF.</DIV>
<DIV>I stated <EM>"Anyone who is willing to torch a building is
<U><STRONG>willing to kill</STRONG></U> anyone inside</EM>."</DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=3>I also stated " <EM>Most notably on the left
are extremist environmental groups that engage in eco-terrorism. Using Dawkins
line of reasoning, anyone who is environmentaly friendly could be seen
assupportive of eco-terrorism. Any belief, taken too far, can result in
fanatical zealots <U><STRONG>willing to kill</STRONG></U> anyone opposed to
their viewpoint."</EM></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=3>Nowhere in my post did I state anyone did kill,
just the willingness to do so as evidenced by their actions.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2><FONT size=3>I'm not the one pulling the switcheroo, you
are.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=starbliss@gmail.com href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">Ted Moffett</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=editor@lataheagle.com
href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com">Kai Eiselein, editor</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=ophite@gmail.com
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</A> ; <A
title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 01, 2007 4:48
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Are you
enabling extremism?</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Kai et. al.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think your focus on environmental terrorism is off the main topic of
this thread, but I will pursue your line of reasoning just a bit, before
asking you to address my point, made earlier in this thread, that was on
topic. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am asking for your documentation of deaths committed by
environmental groups in "terrorist" attacks, because I question the
veracity of this claim that you made. The ALF is not an
environmental group. The Earth Liberation Front is an environmental
group. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have not found any documentation that the Earth Liberation Front has
killed anyone in a terrorist attack.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So I am still asking for your documentation....Given you made the claim,
you should have an example at hand. Asking someone else to prove your
point with evidence seems rather lame.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you cannot provide it, then just say you cannot provide it...You may
have good evidence to support your claim. Please offer it.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, if you really want a logical and fact based dialog on the
critical focus of this thread, clearly stated by Paul when he started this
thread, regarding religious belief promoting extremism, then respond to
my post where I raise the specific example of people who promote the
idea that the Bible or the Koran is the literal absolute word of the
creator of the universe, with very questionable evidence this is true, and act
on this belief in extreme ways. I can list numerous examples of those
who insist the Bible or the Koran contains the literal word of the
creator of the universe, and use this belief to justify numerous ethical
harms: oppression of women, prejudice against gays, corporal punishment of
children, human rights violating applications of the death penalty, to name a
few. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It seems you are trying to "bait and switch" in this thread, by focusing
on what you call "environmental terrorism," without being willing to document
your implication that deaths occurred in such attacks, while
ignoring my point about terrorism resulting in deaths committed by religious
extremists who use their absolute belief in the literal word of God as
contained in the Bible or Koran, as justification. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I will document my claim that people who insist the Bible or
the Koran is the literal word of the creator of the universe,
sometimes follow this belief resulting in extreme terrorist
acts... Or have you forgotten 9/11? </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ted Moffett</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 10/1/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>Kai
Eiselein, editor</B> <<A
href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com">editor@lataheagle.com</A>>
wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">
<DIV bgcolor="#ffffff">
<DIV><FONT size=2>Ted,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I can't believe you've never heard of the Animal
Liberation Front (ALF) or the Earth Liberation Front (ELF), both of which
engage in attacks against entities they disagree with. Perhaps you've
forgotten the string of arsons that took place from the 90's and
into 2001 in Oregon and Washington in which the ELF claimed
responsibility? Or the arrests in 2006 of several members of ELF in
connection with those arsons? </FONT><FONT size=2>Anyone who is willing to
torch a building is willing to kill anyone inside.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I must have struck a nerve, since you are making demands
rather than engaging in debate. From your posts about global warming,
typhoons and such, I know you are perfectly capable of finding information
on the web. Quit feigning ignorance/stupidity, it doesn't become you.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>I'll not waste my time digging up information that has
been well publicized and is readily available just because you demand
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=2>Debate is the art of point-counter point, Ted. Not demand,
counter demand.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><SPAN
class=q>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial"><B>From:</B> <A
title=starbliss@gmail.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com" target=_blank>Ted Moffett</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=editor@lataheagle.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com" target=_blank>Kai Eiselein, editor</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=ophite@gmail.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com" target=_blank>Andreas Schou</A> ; <A
title=godshatter@yahoo.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank>Paul Rumelhart</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank>Vision2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 01, 2007 12:19
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Are you
enabling extremism?</DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=e id=q_1155d37481997a94_2>
<DIV>Kai et. al.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Will you please offer examples of what you call "eco-terrorism,"
engaged in by what you described as "on the left are extremist
environmental groups," that have resulted in deliberately
caused deaths by "fanatics willing to kill," as you phrased
it, such as a terrorist bombing (a road side IED, or a car bomb,
truck bomb, or bombing of a train or bus, etc.) of civilians would
inflict? This is a very serious charge, that should not be made
casually... I am not saying there are not examples of this, just
asking you to provide well founded empirical documentation.
Please provide the name of the environmental group, document
their affiliation with what you termed "the left" (please
explain how you define "the left," and why
they represent "the left," rather than just "left field"), and the
date and details of the terrorist attack. <BR> </DIV>
<DIV>Ted Moffett</DIV>
<DIV>----</DIV>
<DIV>Kai wrote:<BR> </DIV>
<DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"> Most
notably on the left are<BR>extremist environmental groups that engage in
eco-terrorism. Using Dawkins <BR>line of reasoning, anyone who is
environmentaly friendly could be seen as<BR>supportive of
eco-terrorism.<BR>Any belief, taken too far, can result in fanatical
zealots willing to kill<BR>anyone opposed to their viewpoint.
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>