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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hey, don't get me wrong. I don't find anything
unusual or particularly out of the ordinary in an obnoxious, loud,
rude, buffoon making a fool of himself at a democrat gathering. More like
par for the course. (or the senior Massachusetts senator on a Saturday
night. Party on, teddy) I'm just curious about the assertion that political
speech at a political event trumps all other rules or standards that may have
been in place. It is my understanding that the diminutive university police had
been summoned by the event sponsors to escort said fool from the venue. Democrat
sponsors, removing a presumably democrat attention seeker at a democrat event,
while a democrat mumbles on. Where do conservatives come under fire in this
silly mess? It's my contention that the sponsors were probably within their
rights and that had the security personnel that were there been better
suited to the job the whole thing would have been a non-issue. Nothing more and
nothing less.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Saundra Lund" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>sslund@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Saturday, September 22, 2007 2:01
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student
tasered</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Wrong again, Pat.<BR><BR>I suggest you get yourself a stopwatch and
report back to us your timing<BR>results ***as well as*** the source you're
timing so we can all check your<BR>accuracy. All of the sources I've times
have showed the same results from<BR>all angles. It's an objective
fact.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Saundra Lund<BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only thing necessary
for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<BR>nothing.<BR>- Edmund
Burke<BR><BR>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006 through
life plus<BR>70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
outside<BR>the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of
the<BR>author.*****<BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>
[mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<BR>On Behalf Of </FONT><A
href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Saturday,
September 22, 2007 1:49 PM<BR>To: </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@mail-gw.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@mail-gw.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered<BR><BR>You saw the shortened
version...edited for TV.<BR><BR><BR><BR>> Is that what you saw on Fox,
Pat? If so, I suggest you and Gary <BR>> Crabtree look elsewhere
because all of the versions I've seen had the <BR>> young man interrupted
within about 30 seconds. And, part of that <BR>> <gasp> 30
seconds was spent thanking Kerry for his time -- so much for <BR>> your
earlier<BR>contention<BR>> that, "Its <sic> just one more example of
the current generation <BR>> pushing<BR>the<BR>> boundries <sic> and
grownups being unable or unwilling to draw a line <BR>> in manners and
behavior." It's good to know -- although certainly not <BR>> surprising
-- that your definition of "manners and behavior" doesn't<BR>include<BR>> the
expression of gratitude.<BR>> <BR>> Further, he wasn't even able to ask a
SINGLE question before the cops <BR>> started hassling him, so you are -- yet
again, although again not <BR>> surprisingly -- wrong in your allegation with
respect to his questions<BR>that<BR>> he'd "had already had so many answered
that the person running the mic<BR>had<BR>> turned him off." The cops
were all over the guy -- within 90 seconds<BR>from<BR>> the time started
expressing his thanks to Kerry -- before Kerry was <BR>> able<BR>to<BR>>
answer a SINGLE question. Geez-a-lou -- have you never been to a real
<BR>> political forum where there are questions and answers? I can
think of<BR>very<BR>> few instances in the *many* I've attended -- both
liberal and<BR>conservative<BR>> -- where the person asking a question got
out in under 60 seconds, and <BR>> frankly, the conservatives seem to have a
lot heck of a lot of <BR>> difficulty being succinct, IMHO.<BR>> <BR>>
You people really crack me up! You and your ilk only care about the
<BR>> Constitution and its lofty notions of free speech when it suits you
<BR>> and<BR>you<BR>> agree with what's being said. The rest of the
time, you show your <BR>> true colors of wanting to lockstep us right into
fascism, which you've <BR>> made it clear time and again is where you feel
most comfortable.<BR>> <BR>> Fortunately, there are still enough of us who
BELIEVE in the <BR>> Constitution and this little experiment in democracy
known as the <BR>> United States of America that your lunacy will continue to
lose, thank<BR>God!<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> Saundra Lund<BR>> Moscow,
ID<BR>> <BR>> The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good
people to <BR>> do nothing.<BR>> - Edmund Burke<BR>> <BR>> *****
Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through <BR>>
life<BR>plus<BR>> 70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward,
excerpt, or reproduce<BR>outside<BR>> the Vision 2020 forum without the
express written permission of the<BR>> author.*****<BR>> <BR>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>> From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>
[mailto:vision2020-<BR></FONT><A href="mailto:bounces@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>bounces@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>]<BR>>
On Behalf Of </FONT><A href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>> Sent:
Friday, September 21, 2007 6:57 PM<BR>> To: </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@mail-gw.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@mail-gw.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Kerry speech/student tasered<BR>> <BR>> The
student was asking questions about Kerry and Bush and thier<BR>involvment
<BR>> with the 'skull and bones club' and had already had so many
answered<BR>that <BR>> the person running the mic had turned him off. Kerry
is saying that he <BR>> will answer the question. It was on Fox.<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> All-<BR>> > <BR>> > I have not read one
comment in this threat regarding what the <BR>> > tasered student was
asking John Kerry. Maybe I missed it.<BR>> > <BR>> > What I
heard in the media, which I have not verified, is that the<BR>student<BR>>
> was holding a book by Greg Palast (in the video you can see the<BR>student
<BR>> is<BR>> > holding up a book during the incident), dealing with
the election in<BR>> 2004,<BR>> > which Palast (and others who have
studied the facts carefully) <BR>> > asserts<BR>> was<BR>> >
stolen from Kerry via voting fraud and abuse of various kinds. The<BR>>
student<BR>> > is questioning Kerry about why he did not do more to
address the <BR>> > fact<BR>his<BR>> > election to the White House
was stolen (my wording, not what the<BR>student <BR>> may<BR>> > have
possibly said).<BR>> > <BR>> > If this is indeed what the student
was asking John Kerry, the <BR>> > question<BR>is<BR>> >
important.<BR>> > <BR>> > The student may have been being disruptive
in pushing his question <BR>> > "inappropriately" during this appearance
by Kerry. But unless there <BR>> > is<BR>a<BR>> > threat of
violence, or vandalism, etc. I don't understand why law <BR>> >
enforcement needed to arrest someone using violence for
asking<BR>questions<BR>> > during a public event. But I'm not
certain of the total context in<BR>which<BR>> > law enforcement felt they
needed to take these actions. I suspect <BR>> > the<BR>>
fact<BR>> > a US Senator was in the room resulted in a high level of
police<BR>security <BR>> for<BR>> > the event, and they did not want to
take any chances of someone "out <BR>> > of control" doing harm to
Kerry.<BR>> > <BR>> > Everyone knows how managed public appearances
have become for <BR>> > politicians. Nothing "off script" is allowed, if
possible. Some<BR>> politicians<BR>> > screen everyone at their
public appearances before they are allowed<BR>in. <BR>> The<BR>>
> audience is thus pre-selected to avoid protest. George W. Bush is
<BR>> > well known for "public" appearances of this sort<BR>> >
<BR>> > Ted Moffett<BR>> > <BR>> > <BR>> > On 9/21/07,
Janesta <</FONT><A href="mailto:janesta@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>janesta@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> wrote:<BR>>
> ><BR>> > > I don't care if the guy did this 1000 times before.
Violence <BR>> > > should<BR>> NEVER<BR>> > > be used to
silence the opinion of another.<BR>> > ><BR>> > >
Janesta<BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> > ><BR>> >
><BR>> > > On 9/20/07, Andreas Schou <</FONT><A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>ophite@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> wrote:<BR>>
> > ><BR>> > > > On 9/20/07, Pat Kraut < </FONT><A
href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> wrote:<BR>>
> > > > On this kids web site he has other occasions when he<BR>has
'diturbed <BR>> the<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > > peace'
and asked for all he got. His mic had been turned off <BR>> > > >
> by<BR>> > > > someone who<BR>> > > > > thought
he had gone on long enough so it wasn't just the cops <BR>> > > >
> who<BR>> > > > thought he<BR>> > > > > had
pushed his limits. Its just one more example of the <BR>> > > > >
current<BR>> > > > generation<BR>> > > > > pushing
the boundries and grownups being unable or unwilling <BR>> > > >
> to<BR>> draw a<BR>> > > > line<BR>> > > > >
in manners and behavior.<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > Pat
--<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > In what universe is being rude
punishable through coercive use <BR>> > > > of state
violence?<BR>> > > ><BR>> > > > -- ACS<BR>> > >
><BR>> > > >
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