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<DIV>When I lived in Moscow on Shoshone St. a daddy bought a house for his son
to live in while he attended college who then also rented out to 4 other
students. One night I had to call the police twice because of a very loud party
with one of the attendees hollering out on the sidewalk in front of my house at
1:30 in the morning. I had heard that if the police are called to a loud party
the owner has to pay a $100 fine but I did not see anything in the paper in the
police reports about the police being called twice to a party that night. The
police were called again at another later party at the same house where one of
the brats was in my neighbor's pickup and puked in it. I think all this is swept
under the rug and records are not kept about all the times police have to quiet
down parties. This really pissed me off that the city would allow this type of
student housing in a residential neighborhood. It made Moscow not a good place
to live. Why buy a house in a residential neighborhood when next door they can
rent out a house to unruly students.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Fast forward a couple years and we now live in Greenville, NC. The city
here is in the process of passing an ordinance where only 3 non related people
can live in a house because of the problems of students not knowing how to
behave. The bad apples ruined it for everyone and that is why many laws
get enacted, because of people abusing other's privacy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dick Schmidt</DIV>
<DIV>Greenville, NC</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jeanlivingston@turbonet.com
href="mailto:jeanlivingston@turbonet.com">jeanlivingston</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> ; <A
title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A> ;
<A title=lfalen@turbonet.com href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen</A> ; <A
title=the_ivies3@yahoo.com href="mailto:the_ivies3@yahoo.com">Tom Ivie</A> ;
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Moscow
Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, September 21, 2007 9:43
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] discrimination
and zoning (was say what?)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<P>Donovan,</P>
<P>
<P>The ordinance that defines the numbers of unrelated people who may live
together in a home in a low density residential neighborhood applies to
all people regardless of race. Minority status has nothing to do with
numbers of people living in a house. </P>
<P>
<P>For the most part, age, likewise, is not impacted. Nor are single
moms affected. My elderly mother is related to me, just as a
single mom's children are related to her. The ordinance
addresses UNrelated people living together.</P>
<P>
<P>Finally, my understanding is that group homes of unrelated, disabled
<EM>or</EM> elderly people are <EM>exempted</EM> from the law. If my
understanding is correct, and I don't have the citation handy, the state
code allows (up to eight) elderly or disabled people to live in a group home
as a family unit WITHOUT a Conditional Use Permit. This is as per Idaho
code. Perhaps one of the City's legal eagles could fill you in on the
specifics if ! you want more information on that.</P>
<P>
<P>Bruce</P>
<P>
<P><BR></P>
<P>
<P>
<P><BR>-----Original message-----<BR>From: Donovan Arnold
donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 18:52:33 -0700<BR>To:
keely emerinemix kjajmix1@msn.com, lfalen lfalen@turbonet.com, Tom Ivie
the_ivies3@yahoo.com, Moscow Vision 2020 vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] discrimination and zoning (was say what?)<BR><BR>>
Keely,<BR>> <BR>> Sorry you are confused, but nobody is unaware of the
current restrictions on occupancy. Your argument seems to be that the limiting
of the occupancy is OK because it is the law, without looking at the validity
of the reasons for establishing the law, and ignoring the injustices it causes
as well as the restrictions on private property rights. <BR>> <BR>> The
quickest way to eliminate minorities, elderly, single moms, and group homes
for the disabled from being located in your upper class white neighborhoo! d
without expressly prohibiting it in your neighborhood charter would be to
prevent renting out homes and limiting the number of inhabitants for each
unit, which if what the city council has done. <BR>> <BR>> It is
obvious, that the only way many group homes, many minorities, single moms, and
the retired living on limited income can afford to live in middle class
neighbors would be if they shared the rent with several other occupants in a
rented home. <BR>> <BR>> The reason for this law is to remove the five
or six college students living in a neighborhood because many of them are not
respectful or do not fit in with their family friendly neighbors. Home owners
don't like that. I can understand that. But this law is discriminatory and
keeps out lower income people that are a value to the community and add much
needed diversity to the otherwise wealthy WASP family values neighborhoods.
<BR>> <BR>> I think better enforcement of current laws are in order. Ho!
wever, Moscow is a college town. And while some student tear up the place,
remember without the students Moscow would be a tiny poor farming town called
Hog Heaven. They are the bread and butter for everyone on the Palouse.
<BR>> <BR>> Best,<BR>> <BR>> Donovan<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> keely emerinemix <KJAJMIX1@MSN.COM />wrote:<BR>>
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage { FONT-SIZE: 10pt;
FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma } Noise IS covered under an ordinance; other forms of
illegal behavior under others. And the number of people, whether contemplative
monks or hard-partying college boys, also is covered under ordinance. Has been
for at least 15 years. That's because -- and it really IS this simple --
renting to non-family members constitutes running a business, one that the
City has long decided is unlawful in areas zoned not for business, but for
single-family homes. <BR>> <BR>> Period.<BR>> <BR>> Rocket!
science need not be employed here, but I would invite doubters to remember the
preschool lessons of "obey rules" and "break rules" if they're further
confused.<BR>> <BR>> keely<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> > Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:38:43 -0700<BR>> >
From: lfalen@turbonet.com<BR>> > To: donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com;
the_ivies3@yahoo.com; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Say What? Discrimination<BR>> > <BR>> > It seems to
me that controlling the number people that live in a house is a round about
way of getting at the "stated problem"<BR>> > If noise is the problem
regulate that. If parking is a problem regulate that. The only problem I see
with the number of people living in one house would be a potential safety
problem.<BR>> > Roger<BR>> > -----Original message-----<BR>>
> From: Donovan Arnold donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com<BR>> > Date: Mon,
17 Sep 2007 19:57:07 -0700<BR>> > To: Tom Ivie the_ivies3@yahoo.com,
Moscow Vision 2020 vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Say What? Discrimination<BR>> > <BR>> > > Tom
Ivie,<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Lowering the number of occupants
per housing unit by law increases demand for more apartments and housing
units, driving the cost up. With rents up even more, renters are further
soaked again by limiting the number of people they can split rent with.
<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Moscow is a college town. Students
cannot afford much more that $300 piece for rent. IF Moscow raises its rents,
the number of students returning to UI will reduce because they cannot afford
to live in the city with no jobs and unaffordable housing. Many of them will
elect elsewhere to attend like BSU, Albertson, NNU, ISU, LCSC or the new
junior college in Nampa. But ! this is a good move for the socialists agenda
of destroying the Moscow economy through relentless unneeded government
regulation. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Best,<BR>> > >
<BR>> > > Donovan<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Tom Ivie
<THE_IVIES3@YAHOO.COM />wrote:<BR>> > > Doesn't it include a CUP
process? As I understand it, and I could be wrong, lowering the number brings
Moscow more in-line with the codified number that the majority of cities our
size use. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Donovan Arnold
<DONOVANJARNOLD2005@YAHOO.COM />wrote: "These three people [(Pall, Ament and
Lamar)] feel that counting unrelated people in a<BR>> > > dwelling
will solve noise and parking problems in residential<BR>> > >
neighborhoods."<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Mr. Busch is correct on
this point. I think counting the number of unrelated people is discriminatory.
When I worked at Inclusion! North there were often several people with
disabilities living in one home because they cannot afford their own place on
a $660 a month SSI check, especially in a city like Moscow. There are many
poor, disabled, and elderly people that MUST live together in one dwelling for
economic survival. This code is a raw deal for those that are in need of
affordable housing. Another example of elitist socialists trying to make
everyone live like them regardless of their financial situations. The City
Council members are saying, "Let them eat cake", or in this case, let them
live in an apartment with only two people if they can only afford to live in
an apartment with four others. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > And on
the other side of the coin, a family of two adults with two teenagers can be
very noisy and make life for their neighbors intolerable. Why not limit how
many teenagers can live in one household, or how many babies a single mom can
have? It would be just as ! unfair. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > An
unjust law, clearly invented by people living in nice homes with secure
incomes. I hope the newly elected city council will reverse this piece of
discrimination. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > If Moscow would allow
for the building of affordable housing for what people actually earn in Moscow
we would not have 5 students or 5 people on SSI living in one housing unit.
And BTW, Moscow has more people per housing unit then any other city in the
state according the BLS. <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Best,<BR>>
> > <BR>> > > Donovan<BR>> > > <BR>> > >
<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Tom Hansen <THANSEN@MOSCOW.COM
/>wrote:<BR>> > > In a letter to the editor of the Lewiston Tribune,
published today<BR>> > > (September 16, 2007), Steve Busch suggests
that "enforcing existing law<BR>> > > [Moscow Zoning Code] is all
that is necessary."<BR>> > > <BR>> > >
-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>> > >
<BR>> > > Comments made in a letter to the editor authored by local
attorney Jack<BR>> > > Porter and published in the Sept. 12 Lewiston
Tribune cannot be ignored. On<BR>> > > Sept. 4, the current city
council voted 3-2 to change Moscow's city code in<BR>> > > an attempt
to deal with a real problem. <BR>> > > <BR>> > >
Unfortunately, the majority (Pall, Ament and Lamar) threw the baby out
with<BR>> > > the bath water. These three people feel that counting
unrelated people in a<BR>> > > dwelling will solve noise and parking
problems in residential neighborhoods.<BR>> > > <BR>> > >
<BR>> > > The Greater Moscow Alliance feel enforcing existing law is
all that is<BR>> > > necessary. We said so in a letter presente! d to
the council on Sept. 10 (to<BR>> > > see a copy visit
www.greatermoscow.org). Mr. Porter thinks this is evidence<BR>> > >
the GMA is insensitive to Moscow citizens' cherished life style.
Nothing<BR>> > > could be further from the truth. GMA is working hard
to educate the public<BR>> > > about issues and candidates. <BR>>
> > <BR>> > > I urge all Moscow voters to ask candidates for
city council tough questions.<BR>> > > Listen carefully to the
answers and vote your conscience.<BR>> > > <BR>> > > Steve
Busch<BR>> > > President<BR>> > > Greater Moscow
Alliance<BR>> > > Moscow<BR>> > > <BR>> > >
-----------------------------------------------------------<BR>> > >
<BR>> > > Questions, Mr. Busch: How often, and how selective, should
enforcement of<BR>> > > zoning codes be enforced? Instead of
amending! the current code ad nauseam<BR>> > > and allowing for
conditional use permits every time somebody violates<BR>> > >
"existing law", should we draw the proverbial line in the sand, much
like<BR>> > > the Raven, strongly proclaim "Ne'er more", and further
demand that those<BR>> > > entities that are currently in violation
of the zoning code move elsewhere?<BR>> > > <BR>> > >
Reminder, folks!<BR>> > > http://tinyurl.com/36ghxk<BR>> > >
<BR>> > > Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR>> > > <BR>> >
> Tom Hansen<BR>> > > Moscow, Idaho<BR>> > > <BR>>
> > "We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students. The
college<BR>> > > students are not very active in local elections
(thank goodness!)."<BR>> > > <BR>> > > - Dale Courtney
(March 28, 2007)<BR>> > > <BR>>! > > <BR>> > >
<BR>> > >
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<BR>> > &g! t; <BR>> > > <BR>> > > Tom & Liz
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