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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You righteously assert that <EM>"...<FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3>people</FONT></EM><FONT face="Times New Roman"
size=3><EM> in positions of power have chosen in the past not to prosecute
crimes against minorities"</EM> <FONT face=Arial size=2>Specifically when, with
regard to the current topic and in anything like recent history has anyone
committing a crime against a homosexual gotten off precisely because of the
victims sexual preference? Who, exactly, In a position of power has failed
to prosecute a crime against a homosexual because of
the victims orientation. Hate crime legislation is a
solution in search of a problem that, as near as I can see, doesn't exist.
This is not to say that I don't believe that there are vermin running
around that would happily assault a homosexual for their "lifestyle." What I
don't believe is that they will not be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law if caught. Hate crime laws do not make thugs into tolerant
citizens no matter how you might wish it were
so.</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"<EM>Health care benefits between same sex partners, property transfer in
excess of $11,000 per year without tax penalties between same sex couples,
property transfer to a surviving same sex partner without tax penalty and a step
up in cost basis, to name a few."</EM></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks for your help in making
my point with regard to marriage. It appears that you
would like to take a demographic that already skews higher on the affluence
scale and provide them with a few extra tax dodges. Perhaps you would do better
to switch to my side in this discussion and lobby to remove government from
having anything to do with marriage.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Lastly, you failed to address my questioning
of the converse of your initial claim. Why do you think that the granting
of special rights to homosexuals is good for the country. Is it OK to
assert that "I believe it's good" without citing any specifics? I think that the
basic difference between you and the rest of your amigos on this list and
myself is that I believe the solution to most problems is less government
whereas there seems to be no limit to the areas of human Endeavour that you
would have The State poke it's incompetent and over reaching
nose.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
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<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sdredge@yahoo.com href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com">Scott Dredge</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, August 29, 2007 4:02
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Craig's
official statement</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman, new york, times, serif">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">If
we had equal protection, we wouldn't need hate crime legislation now would
we? All crimes would be prosecuted based on the crime committed not
based on who the crime was committed against. Since they are not, and
since some people in positions of power have chosen in the past not to
prosecute crimes against minorities, etc., hate crime legislation was
introduced to remedy that situation. It's been upheld on appeal as
constitutionally sound. Maybe someday hate crime legislation will be as
obsolete as the anti-sodomy laws and the anti mixed-race marriage laws and
then we can strike them from the books.<BR><BR>What rights are being
denied? Health care benefits between same sex partners, property
transfer in excess of $11,000 per year without tax penalties between same sex
couples, property transfer to a surviving same sex partner without tax penalty
and a step up in cost basis, to name a few. There are a whole host of
others. You seem to think that this is something good for the
country...offering benefits to married couples and denying same sex couples
both marriage and the equal benefits. Why? Because there are only
3% of them and gayness might catch? Because there might be
proportionally as many sham same sex marriages as there are sham heterosexual
marriages. I don't think the percentage of gays in the overall
population has much to with it. Marriage laws can easily scale to same
sex partners . Why else have there been a slew of amendments to
state constitutions defining marriage? The answer is because the
existing marriage laws didn't define it and if they did you wouldn't need to
be tinkering with the constitutions.<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">-----
Original Message ----<BR>From: g. crabtree
<jampot@roadrunner.com><BR>To: Scott Dredge <sdredge@yahoo.com>;
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 3:25:53
PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement<BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Enacting hate crime legislation to provide
special protection to a small (or large, for that matter) group who feel put
upon is bad law. It is the very antithesis of equal protection. There is
a major difference between denying rights and granting unique rights. Aside
from the marriage issue, which we all know has nothing to do with marriage in
the conventional sense, what rights are being denied homosexuals?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>The specific arguments have indeed been clearly
laid out time and again. What has yet to be explained rationally is why
providing special considerations to less than 3% of the U.S. population is
good for the country.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>So, how about it? How exactly will the country
become a better place if yet another group is added to the list of those
unable to make their own way in the world without the help of mommy
government?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=sdredge@yahoo.com href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>Scott Dredge</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"
target=_blank rel=nofollow>vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Wednesday, August 29, 2007 9:42 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">I
don't know Gary, is it possible? If someone happens to be in a
position of power and is denying rights for homosexuals and homosexual
couples that are already available for hetoresexuals and heterosexual
couples, don't you think that they should be able clearly explain why they
believe same sex marriage / hate crime / equal rights is bad for the country
instead of just saying "I believe it's bad" without citing any
specifics?<BR><BR>-Scott<BR><BR>
<DIV
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: times new roman,new york,times,serif">-----
Original Message ----<BR>From: g. crabtree
<jampot@roadrunner.com><BR>To: Paul Rumelhart
<godshatter@yahoo.com>; Scott Dredge <sdredge@yahoo.com><BR>Cc:
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 6:25:46
AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official statement<BR><BR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Leaving aside the question of Senator Craig's
sexuality, did I miss the legislation that made it mandatory that all
homosexuals march in lockstep with the whole same sex marriage/hate
crime/pro special rights agenda? Is it not possible to be homosexual
and sincerely believe that these things are bad for the country
and vote accordingly? Apparently not, what the heck could I have been
thinking...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Paul Rumelhart" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>godshatter@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "Scott Dredge" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:sdredge@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial
size=2>sdredge@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cc: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 6:45
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official
statement</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Hey, I don't have anything to prove here. I was just
stating that, <BR>> based upon what I had heard at the time, it sounded
possible that he <BR>> might have been innocent of the charges despite
what he said in court. <BR>> Not that he *was* innocent, not that I
wanted him to be innocent, not <BR>> that I even give a flying fsck
whether he was innocent or not. That was <BR>> based upon a story
that detailed the crimes of touching another mans <BR>> foot in the stall
next to you and reaching under the partition.<BR>> <BR>> What a truly
horrific thing for me to say. I should be ashamed of myself.<BR>>
<BR>> At the time, I hadn't read the NY Times article that Tom
posted. The <BR>> standing outside the restroom door for two
minutes looking through the <BR>> crack thing falls neatly into the
category of "odd behavior".<BR>> <BR>> So, ok, maybe he is a
hypocrite. So here is another thought that will <BR>> probably get
me reviled as Satan's second cousin or something, but how <BR>> do you
avoid be hypocritical on some subjects when you are ostensibly <BR>>
representing your constituents? What do you do if you are inwardly
<BR>> pro-homosexual, but your constituency isn't? Were you elected
to vote <BR>> as you wish? Or were you elected to vote as your
constituency wishes? <BR>> If he's a hypocrite, he became one the
day he courted the electorate <BR>> that differed from his own personal
views.<BR>> <BR>> Paul<BR>> <BR>> Scott Dredge
wrote:<BR>>> Oh give it up, Paul and Roger. Are you guys not
paying attention? You can find Larry Craig's hypocrisy just about
everywhere. Did you not see his press conference today? The
first sentence out of his mouth was, "Thank you all very much for 'coming
out' today" as if all the reporters and everyone else in the audience had
some closeted secret that had come to light and they were owning up to it
unlike himself. Criminy! If that ain't hypocrisy, I guess I don't know
what hypocrisy is. Of course, maybe I don't know. Hmmm...let me
think about that a bit...<BR>>><BR>>>
-Scott<BR>>><BR>>> ----- Original Message ----<BR>>> From:
lfalen <</FONT><A href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial size=2>lfalen@turbonet.com</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial size=2>><BR>>> To: Paul Rumelhart <</FONT><A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>godshatter@yahoo.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>; Joe Campbell <</FONT><A href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"
target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>>
Cc: </FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>>>
Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 9:55:29 AM<BR>>> Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Craig's official statement<BR>>><BR>>> My
sentiments also. I don't know where Craig stands on sexuality. Joe. maybe
you could let us know were the hypocrisy is?<BR>>> -----Original
message-----<BR>>> From: Paul Rumelhart </FONT><A
href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>godshatter@yahoo.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>> Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 20:25:26 -0700<BR>>> To: Joe
Campbell </FONT><A href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Craig's official
statement<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>>>> Sure, be my
guest.<BR>>>><BR>>>> You're
welcome.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Is he actively anti-homosexual or
something? Despite the fact that he <BR>>>> gave me a
nomination to the Air Force Academy in 1984 (which turned me
<BR>>>> down) I haven't really followed his career that
much.<BR>>>><BR>>>> I'm just saying that I'd hate to be in
that situation and not actually <BR>>>> be guilty. Tapping
your right foot. Who knew? I might also be tempted
<BR>>>> to just pay the damn fine and hope nobody notices,
too.<BR>>>><BR>>>> I do know I plan to keep both feet
solidly on the floor for the duration <BR>>>> next time I'm in an
airport restroom.<BR>>>><BR>>>>
Paul<BR>>>><BR>>>> Joe Campbell
wrote:<BR>>>> <BR>>>>>
Paul,<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> You're not really that naive,
are you? How about hypocrisy? Can we accuse him of
that?<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> --<BR>>>>> Joe
Campbell<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
--------------------<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> The article I
read in the Washington Post said that he had tapped the <BR>>>>>
foot of the person in the stall next him and reached under the
<BR>>>>> partition. Naive to ways of the dance of restroom stall
courtship and <BR>>>>> etiquette, I probably would have handed
him some toilet paper blithely <BR>>>>> assuming that his
dispenser was empty.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>> I haven't yet
read the articles linked to earlier - so it's possible it
<BR>>>>> was more than that. But given what the Post said, I
can't really accuse <BR>>>>> him of much
myself.<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
Paul<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>>>
List services made available by First Step Internet,
<BR>>>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since
1994.
<BR>>>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
<BR>>>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>>><BR>>>>>
<BR>>>>> <BR>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>>
List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>>>>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
<BR>>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>>
<BR>>><BR>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>
List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>>>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
<BR>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>
=======================================================<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>
List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>>>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>
<BR>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank
rel=nofollow><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>
=======================================================<BR>>><BR>>>
<BR>> <BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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size=2>
<BR>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com" target=_blank rel=nofollow><FONT
face=Arial size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>>
=======================================================<BR>></FONT></DIV><BR></DIV></DIV>
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