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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Why do I continue to sift through piles of V2020
posts?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>To uncover gems of powerful prose like Keely provides to
us.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>BL</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@roadrunner.com
href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g. crabtree</A> ; <A
title=ophite@gmail.com href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=joekc@adelphia.net href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net">Joe Campbell</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:15
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] the plan, Gary
(was Trinity Fest protest)</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Nice try, Gary.<BR><BR>The context was evident in my post,
wherein I stated -- and reiterate now -- that Doug Wilson wasn't eager to
discuss his views on levying the Mosaic civil code (death or exile) against
homosexuals once those views became known and once he felt the fire that
resulted. He will tell you, Ben Merkle will tell you, Doug Jones will
tell you, and Credenda/Agenda will tell you that they don't mean NOW,
today, in this particular epoch of history, and how awful that people like me
say they do. They don't want to round up my gay friends and kill them
now, you big silly. They don't think adulterers today should be peppered
with old cinderblock from the silos downtown, and they don't think pedophiles,
for example, should be exiled this very minute. Goodness, no! That
would make them, well, unpopular. Shunned, perhaps. Maybe even
denounced with vigor in the public square.<BR><BR>No, Gary, they mean they
want that WHEN they, as part of Christ's church, take dominion over society in
every possible way. While I doubt that'll happen, say, while I'm in
Denver, make no mistake that they do believe it will happen, and they do
intend to bring us back to the law, standards, and sanctions of Moses. I
don't believe, by the way, that Jesus intends for their moral vision of the
future to be realized in that way, but their rhetoric has a chilling effect on
community and a devastating effect on evangelism. But then again, Wilson
believes that what most Christians call "revival" is a silly exercise in
impotent arrogance or immature pleading, so I doubt that the poisoning of
Gospel witness is forefront in their minds.<BR><BR>The fact that Doug Wilson
believes the three primary moral evils of our day are represented by
feminists, abortionists, and sodomites -- a vicious term I use only to
illustrate my point -- ought to cause you some concern. That they have a
specific means by which to eliminate these threats in their committed hope for
a world under what they believe to be the Lordship of Christ and his people is
demonstrable,. If you're a straight, Christian, pro-fetal life white
guy, you may not have a problem with it. I'm a straight, white,
Christian pro-life feminist, and I do.<BR><BR>I plan to spend the weekend with
a couple of hundred committed Trinitarian feminists from all over the
world. We'll discuss how to denounce racism, sexism, and classism from
the Scriptures, and how to equip women and men to exercise their gifts and
callings under the guidance and with the empowerment of the Holy Spirit.
We'll hear of communities where "ramped-up Sabbath feasting" consists of a
little water, a little rice, a few roots and berries, and where the witness of
those believers makes such extravagant Sabbath feasting look downright
hedonistic by comparison. I'll meet Third World women who lead
congregations and whose work has transformed entire villages, and I'll meet
men who sacrificially give to support the ministries of their wives, mothers,
and sisters. I'll meet people who know firsthand the bitter sting of
persecution; I'll be even less likely when I return to listen to bleating
cries of persecution by fattened lambs whose worse suffering is levied upon
them by their own shepherds.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR>"Were I to be again reduced
to the chains of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the
slave of a religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me.
For of all slaveholders whom whom I have ever met, religious slaveholders were
the worst. I have ever found the meanest and basest, the most cruel and
cowardly, of all others. It was my unhappy lot not only to belong to a
religious slaveholder, but to live in a community of such religionists."
Frederick Douglass, abolitionist, feminist, and former slave<BR><BR><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"></SPAN><BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>To: kjajmix1@msn.com; ophite@gmail.com<BR>CC:
lfalen@turbonet.com; joekc@adelphia.net; vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest<BR>Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2007 07:08:53
-0700<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Ms. Mix claims the issue of the death penalty and
homosexuality have not been addressed together. From the references I
cited:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"On the one hand, we are being attacked for wanting to execute <SPAN
class=EC_highlight>homosexuals</SPAN>, WHICH WE DO NOT, (my emphasis added)
and on the other hand, we are attacked for favoring homosexual marriages,
which we do not favor."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Homosexuals commit sodomy, heterosexuals commit adultery, and thieves
steal. Welcome to planet earth. But Jesus came to forgive sins. <I>Christ
saves sinners, all kinds.</I> Not only that, but He welcomes them into His
church."</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>It would seem that the issue has been clearly addressed. I have to
guess that what Ms. Mix means is that it has not been addressed in a manner
that she finds personally palatable. Something involving abject apology
for a position not held and seppuku perhaps?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=jampot@roadrunner.com href="mailto:jampot@roadrunner.com">g.
crabtree</A> ; <A title=ophite@gmail.com
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com">Andreas Schou</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Cc:</B>
<A title=lfalen@turbonet.com href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen</A>
; <A title=joekc@adelphia.net href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net">Joe
Campbell</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:26 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
RE: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>No, Gary, your ease-of-search experience does not refute my
pious contention that Christ Church has been terribly reticent in
discussing its views on homosexuality and the death penalty -- as a single
issue. Not "on homosexuality," and then, "on the death penalty," but
on "the death penalty as a possible punishment for homosexuality."
You work in a field that requires exactitude and specificity; why you're
content with deception and evasion posing as a legitimate virtue is beyond
me.<BR><BR>I only ask that Wilson, et al, not feign bewilderment when
they're accused of teaching ugly and divisive doctrine, and then ask us to
accept their convoluted explanations just because they're spoken in
English, employ biting wit, or come from the lips of a clergymember or
elder. In other words, say what you mean, mean what you say, and
take the flack and the accolades that follow.<BR><BR>Pretty simple,
eh?<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Were I to be again reduced to the chains
of slavery, next to that enslavement, I should regard being the slave of a
religious master the greatest calamity that could befall me. For of
all slaveholders whom whom I have ever met, religious slaveholders re the
worst. I have ever found the meanest and basest, the most cruel and
cowardly, of all others. It was my unhappy lot not only to belong to
a religious slaveholder, but to live in a community of such
religionists." Frederick Douglass, abolitionist, feminist, and
former slave<BR><BR><BR><SPAN
style="FONT-STYLE: italic"></SPAN><BR><BR><BR>> From:
jampot@roadrunner.com<BR>> To: ophite@gmail.com<BR>> CC:
kjajmix1@msn.com; lfalen@turbonet.com; joekc@adelphia.net;
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival
protest<BR>> Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2007 12:38:01 -0700<BR>> <BR>> Mr.
Schou asks as though there were sinister implications to the
answer:<BR>> <BR>> Gary, who's been feeding you these links?<BR>>
<BR>> Why would any "feeding" be required? C/A is available online free
of charge.<BR>> <BR>> Wilson's blog is there for all to see. It has
an excellent search function.<BR>> <BR>> Cannon Press has a complete
listing of available materials for your pleasure <BR>> on their
website.<BR>> <BR>> I hope that this answers your burning question.
It was the work of but a few <BR>> moments to obtain the references I
listed in my post. My question for you <BR>> would be why would it
matter? The simple fact that they exist seems to <BR>> effectively
rebut the assertion that CC is " terribly reticent to discuss <BR>> its
views on the death penalty for homosexuals."<BR>> <BR>> g<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> -- Original Message ----- <BR>> From:
"Andreas Schou" <ophite@gmail.com><BR>> To: "g. crabtree"
<jampot@roadrunner.com><BR>> Cc: "keely emerinemix"
<kjajmix1@msn.com>; "lfalen" <lfalen@turbonet.com>; <BR>>
"Joe Campbell" <joekc@adelphia.net>;
<vision2020@moscow.com><BR>> Sent: Wednesday, August 08, 2007
9:16 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Trinity Festival protest<BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> >> Before swallowing Mix, Campbell, Schou, and
others of their ilk's <BR>> >> breathless<BR>> >>
assertions one would be well advised to go to the source and review what
<BR>> >> has<BR>> >> actually been said. Since Ms. Mix
mentions Credenda/Agenda one might do <BR>> >> well<BR>>
>> to start there. Please see Volume 16 number 2. The entire issue
is <BR>> >> devoted<BR>> >> to the topic and nowhere
will you see any evidence of the claims made by<BR>> >> CC's
usual antagonists. After dealing with that disappointment one might
<BR>> >> go<BR>> >> to Doug Wilson's own personnel blog
and read entries on 06/01/05 and<BR>> >> 08/30/05, the latter
specifically and in detail speaking to the <BR>> >>
ridiculous<BR>> >> notion expressed by our resident
propagandists. And finally for the <BR>> >> reading<BR>>
>> challenged, one can listen to Wilson in his very own voice speak
to the<BR>> >> topic on the Cannon Press CD "The Sin of
Homophobia" lecture C 03/31/04.<BR>> ><BR>> > Yes, Gary. Why
don't we review what's been said:<BR>> ><BR>> > Slavery is a
sin. Slavery is not a sin.<BR>> ><BR>> > The Civil War
unjustly crushed the South. The Civil War was the<BR>> > judgment of
an angry God on a corrupt society.<BR>> ><BR>> > Homosexuality
should be punished with death. Homosexuality should not<BR>> > be
punished with death. Homosexuality should be punished with exile.<BR>>
> Gay marriage is wrong. Gay marriage is the judgment of an angry God
on<BR>> > the United States.<BR>> ><BR>> > The United
States should be ruled according to Mosaic law now. The<BR>> >
United States should not be ruled according to Mosaic law yet. The<BR>>
> United States should only be ruled according to Mosaic law
when<BR>> > Americans are ready to be ruled according to Mosaic
law.<BR>> ><BR>> > Lying is wrong. "Covenental lying," i.e.
"lying to those outside the<BR>> > church," is an exception.<BR>>
><BR>> > We consider Moscow a "tactical point." We do not
consider Moscow a<BR>> > "tactical point." We don't know what you're
talking about.<BR>> ><BR>> > We consider ourselves Christian
Reconstructionists. We don't consider<BR>> > ourselves Christian
Reconstructionists.<BR>> ><BR>> > Poor Doug Wilson, always
being misinterpreted -- and always stuck<BR>> > between appeasing
his local critics and not upsetting the<BR>> > mouth-breathing
racists who buy his books.<BR>> ><BR>> > Also, Gary, who's
been feeding you these links?<BR>> ><BR>> > -- ACS<BR>>
> <BR>> <BR>> <BR><BR>
<HR>
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