<div> </div>
<div>Joe, Paul et. al.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm not very certain that art produced by an organization that advocates a, how should I phrase it, authoritarian ideology that promotes second class citizen status for women and Gay individuals, at best, should be viewed as harmless fun, or a less harmful diversion from their other activities to expand their ideology and power. Art has often been used by significant authoritarian ideologies to proselytize and promote their agenda. Art can be a very effective tool for this purpose. If the promotion of Christ Church's power in Moscow deserves protest, then I am not certain why (except perhaps relating to the psychology of the most effective tactics of changing public opinion) protesting an art event should be any less of a target than protesting several of the other activities associated with the Trinity Festival. Of course this depends on how protest is conducted, as always.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Even if the play appears harmless from the point of view of any of the objectionable themes (slavery, women and Gay rights) that have raised the ire of many, it may still be a very effective public relations tool to promote the power and acceptance of this church in the community. Of course a protest aimed at this play might back fire due to being viewed as going too far, creating sympathy for Christ Church. Indeed, it appears that painting those who oppose Christ Church as unreasonable activists who are unfairly singling out this church for criticism is an effective tactic to encourage sympathy. Any protest regarding Christ Church might back fire in this manner.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm writing in these comments from a realistic point of view regarding the politics, the tactics of manipulating public opinion and promoting an organization's power and influence, or trying to lessen the power of an organization via activism and protest. To make an admittedly hyperbolic and worn out comparison, if the Nazi party in Germany in 1935 was staging a harmless comedy to promote the public acceptance and image of their party, would it be reasonable to view this as a innocent art oriented event?
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Regarding Spinoza, I once posted info on Spinoza to Vision2020, back when many Christ Church members posted with their real names with regularity. The response by some Christ Church members to the philosophical and theological views of Spinoza, a philosopher I have enjoyed reading who I think makes some excellent arguments, was not very sympathetic. I won't go into the details, but Spinoza's approach to theology and philosophy I am certain contradicts the theological views of Christ Church's "intelligentsia." I would therefore be surprised if, given there is any attempt to present Spinoza's philosophy in detail, that he would receive a fair and accurate portrayal.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ted Moffett<br><br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/3/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Joe Campbell</b> <<a href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net">joekc@adelphia.net</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Of course, most of the people gathering in Friendship Square tonight have been to planning and zoning meetings, as have many of the Kirk. That's what makes things so frustrating.
<br><br>I agree with you and with Nick, though, that protesting the Kenworthy goes too far. Mind you, I have not talked to anyone about this, so I don't know why one would want to do such a thing. Of course, if it turns out that play about Spinoza makes insulting comments about him, that might be enough to make me protest. Philosophers have got to stick together!
<br><br>Lastly, I didn't want to suggest, by noting the history of the NSA, that a Cathedral downtown would be illegal. I don't know one way or the other. There are other issues to consider, though.<br><br>Best, Joe
<br><br><br>---- Paul Rumelhart <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>=============<br>It sounds like people should be protesting at the zoning and planning<br>commission then or what ever body it is that allows these things to
<br>happen instead of at a gathering of their followers. That makes more<br>sense to me than disturbing an event that will have families with<br>children who are simply trying their best to have a good time.<br><br>I do understand that you have no intention of disturbing their festival,
<br>I'm just talking generally here.<br><br>Paul<br><br>Joe Campbell wrote:<br>> Paul,<br>><br>> Another good set of questions!<br>><br>> You write: "Doesn't freedom of religion trump simple dislike for the church or some of it's members?"
<br>><br>> Certainly it does.<br>><br>> You also ask: "But why disturb their festival? What is their political and economic agendas that these activists are protesting?"<br>><br>> I have no plans to disturb their festival, though I am interested in who wrote the play about Spinoza in which Doug stars. (And I'm still waiting for my tickets!)
<br>><br>> As for political and economic agendas, NSA has succeeded—after three distinct conflicts with zoning laws—in suggesting that colleges and universities have a right to the downtown area, thus rendering it a matter of mercy that the UI doesn't take over. And then there is this recent issue of their cathedral being located downtown, which opens up the question of: Why stop there? Why not locate all cathedrals, churches, temples, tombs, and tomes downtown? What have we got to lose? And if not all, why them?
<br>><br>> Is that enough?<br>><br>> Best, Joe<br>><br>><br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<br>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> =======================================================
<br><br><br><br>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">
http://www.fsr.net</a><br> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================</blockquote></div><br>