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Wait, wait, wait ...<br><br>Ted, I was poking fun at myself when I said that "thinking people would no doubt take either of us seriously," which was in response to Ralph's saying that "no thinking people" took Josh McDowell seriously. I was saying that while I had never read McDowell, he's never read my stuff -- obviously.<br><br>I have never met Ralph, so I can't consider him a friend, but I don't consider him an enemy, either. Nick, on the other hand, is my friend and someone I think the world of. I can't comment on anything I might have said to you without knowing exactly what it was, but if I've ever offended you, please let me know. It would not be my intention.<br><br>keely<br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">"And these women that you spit on as they try to change their worlds/</span><br style="font-style: italic;"><span style="font-style: italic;">Are immune to your consultations . . . they're quite aware of what they're going through"</span><br>(With apologies to David Bowie)<br><br><br><blockquote><hr>Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 17:04:42 -0700<br>From: starbliss@gmail.com<br>To: kjajmix1@msn.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Mere Christianity!<br>CC: nielsen@uidaho.edu; vision2020@moscow.com<br><br><div> </div>
<div>keely et. al.</div>
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<div>Too late to encourage a hesitation to not take you or Ralph seriously on this issue of the resurrection of Christ.</div>
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<div>Hundreds of millions of people believe in the resurrection of Christ, as you do, and based on this belief, follow an ideology and resultant behaviors that have profound effects on our world, locally and otherwise. You are obviously a very intelligent person who has chosen to lead a rather public life in regards to your opinions on this and related issues. You certainly appear to want to be taken seriously!
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<div>In regards to Ralph, he is knowledgeable about Biblical scholarship, and has also chosen to speak publically on Biblical issues. It appears Ralph offers these opinions on Biblical issues with a basis in scholarship that is meant to be taken seriously.
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<div>Are you saying Ralph's opinions on these issues are not worth taking seriously by thinking people? I feel compelled to defend Ralph against your dismissal of the value of his opinion on this issue, hidden behind what appears like false modesty. You don't really want us to not take you seriously on your opinion regarding the resurrection of Christ. Should we have not taken you seriously in your radio debate with Doug Wilson?
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<div>By the way, while I'm being confrontational, I once posted some kind words about Nick Gier to Vision2020 in response to some rather nasty attacks against Nick posted to the list. You responded to my post, dismissing my kind words, indicating that Nick did not need me to defend him... I did not hear a word from NIck on this issue, one way or the other.
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<div>So who are you to speak for Nick Gier? If Nick does not want me to post kind words about him, he is perfectly capable of informing me of this fact, is he not?<br> </div>
<div>Ted Moffett</div>
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<div><span class="EC_gmail_quote">On 7/29/07, <b class="EC_gmail_sendername">keely emerinemix</b> <<a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</a>> wrote:</span>
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<div>Ralph, <br> <br>I thought I'd hear from you on this!<br> <br>I believe that Jesus is in Heaven, having risen from the grave. You don't. And so, since some thinking people might take either of us seriously, let's let them decide -- with or without Josh McDowell, whose apologetic works I haven't read.
<br> <br>But that's OK. He hasn't read mine, either.<br> <br>keely<span class="q"><br><br><span style="font-style: italic;">"And these women that you spit on as they try to change their worlds/</span><br style="font-style: italic;">
<span style="font-style: italic;">Are immune to your consultations . . . they're quite aware of what they're going through"</span><br>(With apologies to David Bowie)<br><br><br></span>> From: <a href="mailto:nielsen@uidaho.edu">
nielsen@uidaho.edu</a><br>> Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 20:41:11 -0700<br>> To: <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Subject: [Vision2020] Mere Christianity!
<br>> <br>> Reading some of the reasons why some of our readers believe what they <br>> call Christianity is like reading Josh McDowell, who cannot be taken <br>> seriously by thinking people.<br>> <br>> There is no evidence that Jesus or anybody else rose from the dead,
<br>> whether in Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, or whatever. The claim <br>> that most of the alleged disciples of Jesus died martyr's death is <br>> pure fiction. The Bible doesn't even agree on who they were. And
<br>> there are no credible accounts of how they were supposed to have <br>> died. Of course, that in itself proves nothing about the alleged <br>> "truth" for which they are supposed to have died. History is full of
<br>> martyrs who died for what they believed was the "truth."<br>> <br>> Here is another difficulty for resurrection believers. If Jesus rose <br>> physically from the grave, where is he today--physically? The gospel
<br>> called Mark has no post-resurrection accounts at all. The one called <br>> Matthew ends with Jesus on a mountain in Galilee. Luke has Jesus <br>> going up into the clouds from Bethany, which is nowhere near Galilee.
<br>> John has no ascension account at all. His Jesus is already <br>> transformed into a part-physical, part-spirit form which doesn't need <br>> to ascend anywhere. Are these reliable eye-witness accounts? Give us
<br>> a break!<span class="q"><br>> <br>> =======================================================<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
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