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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Donovan, you missed my point, but I won't try
again. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sue</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=suehovey@moscow.com
href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">Sue Hovey</A> ; <A title=lfalen@turbonet.com
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com">lfalen</A> ; <A title=mattd2107@hotmail.com
href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">Matt Decker</A> ; <A
title=thansen@moscow.com
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 21, 2007 9:57
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] women in
authority and leadership</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I think we should only allow young and old women and flamboyant gay men
to serve in combat against countries in the Middle East. That way when we kick
their ass not only will the country lose the war, they will lose face amongst
their neighbors getting demolished by a bunch of girls and queers. No leader
of a radical Muslim nation would be able to withstand the political fallout of
letting his army fall to little girls, pregnant women, grandmas, and
sissy boys. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Sue Hovey <<A
href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com">suehovey@moscow.com</A>></I></B>
wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Well
there has certainly been little disagreement among men that women are
<BR>supposed to serve....<BR><BR>Sue<BR>----- Original Message -----
<BR>From: "lfalen" <LFALEN@TURBONET.COM><BR>To: "Matt Decker"
<MATTD2107@HOTMAIL.COM>; <SUEHOVEY@MOSCOW.COM>; <BR><THANSEN@MOSCOW.COM>;
<VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>Sent: Friday, July 20, 2007 9:25 AM<BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] women in authority and leadership<BR><BR><BR>>I agree
with Matt, however there are plenty of things women can do to serve
<BR>>besides combat.<BR>><BR>> Roger<BR>> -----Original
message-----<BR>> From: "Matt Decker" mattd2107@hotmail.com<BR>> Date:
Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:52:24 -0700<BR>> To: suehovey@moscow.com,
thansen@moscow.com, vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
women in authority and leadership<BR>><BR>>>
Sue,<BR>>><BR>>> It's nice to see someone besides us military
boys talking about this. I<BR>>> understand your concerns, which I'm
sure do happen time to time. I doubt<BR>>> though, that in the case of
rape, it happens very often. Of course in<BR>>> situations such as
those women shouldn't be discharged. One must( I can't<BR>>> state
enough) realize that every time someone, women or men, leaves
their<BR>>> unit for whatever that be, drastically hurts the
unit.<BR>>><BR>>> Having a possibility for a women to be raped
and having one if not two<BR>>> people withdrawn from that unit only
further makes me more confident <BR>>> about<BR>>> my
opinion.What if one of those women are in a leadership role.Believe
me<BR>>> I've seen a women lietantant (spelling again) flown home from
ship from <BR>>> an<BR>>> unwanted pregnancy. War is not about
political correctness, but rather<BR>>> lives. Women in the infantry
will cause more causalities in my sexiest(<BR>>> thanks Tom) opinion.
So be it though. I've seen first hand what the <BR>>>
infantry<BR>>> is about.<BR>>><BR>>> Ive trained with
Force Recon and the Navy seals. I've fast roped out of<BR>>>
helicopters with 80 pounds of gear. Ive hiked 50 miles up and down 7000
<BR>>> ft<BR>>> mountains with 130 total pounds of gear in 6
days. I've seen what women <BR>>> do<BR>>> around marines or
what spouses and husbands do away from each other for 6<BR>>> months
or a year. How some choose to whore themselves out.<BR>>><BR>>>
Sorry if I'm venting but I tired of how people read shit but don't live
<BR>>> it.<BR>>> I have had 14 buddies that have served oversees
in this stupid current <BR>>> war.<BR>>> I know as well as Tom
knows that the military trains for any outcome. I <BR>>>
am<BR>>> very aware that our military is more mobile than 20 years
ago. However, I <BR>>> am<BR>>> quite sure all branches train
for when your vehicle breaks down and you <BR>>> have<BR>>> to
hike out. Just like they teach a desk jockey how to shoot a
gun.<BR>>><BR>>> Sue, I don't feel that most women can do
infantry training. But, I don't<BR>>> hold that against them. I am
sure that some can. I am just uneasy about <BR>>> all<BR>>> the
other stuff hidden behind closed doors, which can destroy morale and
<BR>>> end<BR>>> up killing
people.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Again sorry if I
vented it's nothing towards you, just something that I<BR>>> needed to
get off my chest, as well as everyone should know.<BR>>><BR>>>
Take care<BR>>> matt<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> >From:
"Sue Hovey" <SUEHOVEY@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>> >To: "Matt Decker"
<MATTD2107@HOTMAIL.COM>, <THANSEN@MOSCOW.COM>,<BR>>>
><VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women
in authority and leadership<BR>>> >Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:56:28
-0700<BR>>> ><BR>>> >I really don't deny you make a point
that needs to be considered. I <BR>>> >think<BR>>> >people
who have experienced certain situations first hand, need to have<BR>>>
>their opinions thoughtfully considered. But in a discussion of
<BR>>> >pregnant<BR>>> >female military and the causes for
that condition, and then using that <BR>>> >as a<BR>>>
>reason to exclude them from combat, one might liken some of it, maybe
a<BR>>> >lot of it, to putting a curfew on women because rapists
prowl at night <BR>>> >(see<BR>>> >today's Doonsbury,
too). And if there are some men who can't handle <BR>>>
>an<BR>>> >infantry payload, no one has suggested this means all
should be <BR>>> >excluded.<BR>>> >During Desert Storm, I
resented the fact that we sent women to protect <BR>>>
>the<BR>>> >interests of Saudia Arabia, and those women weren't
even allowed to <BR>>> >leave<BR>>> >the military compound
or drive a car into a town. And a number were <BR>>>
>killed<BR>>> >in the bombing of their barracks.<BR>>>
><BR>>> >Something else we need to consider: Inasmuch as males
must register for<BR>>> >the draft at age 18, then why should
females not also have to register? <BR>>> >And<BR>>>
>when, and if, the draft is reauthorized then all young people would
be<BR>>> >eligible and expected to serve. But that doesn't touch on
your issue, <BR>>> >I<BR>>> >know.<BR>>>
><BR>>> >Sue<BR>>> >----- Original Message ----- From:
"Matt Decker" <MATTD2107@HOTMAIL.COM><BR>>> >To:
<THANSEN@MOSCOW.COM>; <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>> >Sent: Tuesday,
July 17, 2007 10:45 PM<BR>>> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] women in
authority and leadership<BR>>> ><BR>>> ><BR>>>
>>For those of you that feel women should be put into combat
situations,<BR>>> >>mainly infantry orientated units let me give
you my side. And please<BR>>> >>withhold from calling me a
sexist, if you must call me anything, call <BR>>> >>me
a<BR>>> >>realist. These points below are the ONLY points I
stand on and nothing<BR>>> >>more.<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>1. Most women can't handle a infantry payload.
Some can and more power <BR>>> >>to<BR>>> >>them,
but majority can't. Not saying that I'm basing my opinion on
this<BR>>> >>principle, but it does serve an ideal. EX. When I
was in, we had many<BR>>> >>ops/humps that consisted of a 20+
mile hike/hump with a 40+ pound pack <BR>>> >>on<BR>>>
>>our backs, not including the weapons and gear, another 30 pounds.
Many <BR>>> >>of<BR>>> >>men didn't make it.
Dehydration, broken bones, etc. One mission was a <BR>>>
>>one<BR>>> >>week operation with vector packs. We did
this mission for future <BR>>> >>potential<BR>>>
>>Korea conflicts. In other words mountianous area of 7000 ft plus.
Our<BR>>> >>packs<BR>>> >>had 100 pounds not
including the 30 ponds of water, ammo, and other <BR>>>
>>such<BR>>> >>items. Like I said If a women can do this
more power to her.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>This is the
weakest points of my arguement<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>2.
There was a common phrase in the marines, more like a joke, in which
<BR>>> >>I<BR>>> >>saw true too many times.When is
the only time you see a WM(women <BR>>> >>Marine)<BR>>>
>>not<BR>>> >>pregnant,,,,,,,,,,,, in boot camp(being that
Marines males and females <BR>>> >>are<BR>>>
>>seperated during that phase). In a infantry unit 40-45 men will go
into<BR>>> >>combat. Each time someone falls out of position or
has a medical <BR>>> >>problem,<BR>>> >>another has
to either fill that spot or most likely create a void. <BR>>>
>>Taking<BR>>> >>away from the unit. This can greatly
increase the chance that another <BR>>> >>unit<BR>>>
>>unit member will get injured or killed.<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>Let's say that a unit consists of 45 people 35
of those are male, I <BR>>> >>will<BR>>> >>promise
you that 6 of those will be pregnant within six months. With a<BR>>>
>>bunch<BR>>> >>of horny males jerking off too sears
catalogs, what else would you<BR>>> >>suspect.<BR>>>
>>This loss ONLY hurts the whole unit, taking away from the time
the<BR>>> >>military<BR>>> >>has put forth in
training these fine women. I don't know about all of <BR>>>
>>you,<BR>>> >>but if I'm going to combat I would rather
have a full force than one <BR>>> >>that<BR>>> >>has
been depleted due to a curable cause.<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>>3. Fratinization (spelling, Yup I know I will never win a spelling
bee <BR>>> >>but<BR>>> >>what the hell), has
destroyed units. I have seen way too many times <BR>>>
>>women<BR>>> >>humping upper ranks to get their goals
met, what ever that be. Meaning<BR>>> >>that<BR>>>
>>someone, yet again has to fill a void of a now vacant spot. Whether
<BR>>> >>that<BR>>> >>be<BR>>> >>the
first person through the door or a tow gunner, since now they are
a<BR>>> >>desk<BR>>> >>jockey. Believe it or not
people this happens everyday. There is no <BR>>>
>>need<BR>>> >>for<BR>>> >>it in a combat
situation. This only causes animosity throughout the <BR>>>
>>whole<BR>>> >>unit, which I might remind you is one of
the goals,the unit.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>4. Of course
there are other items such as women serving in a infantry<BR>>>
>>situation, in a middle east area. Or the possible outcome of
beheaded<BR>>> >>women<BR>>> >>displayed all over
the news.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>These items are dear to
me. Only because Ive seen some of them too <BR>>>
>>often.<BR>>> >>I've never been in combat, and commend
those that have sacrificed, <BR>>> >>Women<BR>>>
>>and<BR>>> >>Men. I just don't feel women should ever
serve in an infantry unit <BR>>> >>period.<BR>>>
>>Not because of the physical part, but what happens to units and how
<BR>>> >>much<BR>>> >>it<BR>>> >>can do
to that unit.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>If and only if these
items can be fixed, then will I feel in full<BR>>> >>confidence,
that women should be in INFANTRY organizations.<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>Oh yeah and before anyone asks "why is it that
other noncombatant units<BR>>> >>due<BR>>> >>fine
with women, so why can't infantry deal with it" approach. let me
<BR>>> >>just<BR>>> >>remind you that infantry units
deal mostly with numbers. Don't believe <BR>>> >>me<BR>>>
>>check out WW2, korea, Vietnam, First gulf war, and the one
now.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>Take care<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>Matt<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>>>From: "Tom Hansen" <THANSEN@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>>
>>>To: <VISION2020@MOSCOW.COM><BR>>> >>>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] women in authority and leadership<BR>>> >>>Date:
Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:07:16 -0700<BR>>> >>><BR>>>
>>>For those of you who do not believe women should be permitted in
<BR>>> >>>uniform,<BR>>> >>>let alone in
combat, I commend to you:<BR>>> >>><BR>>>
>>><BR>>> >>><BR>>> >>>"Band of
Sisters" by Kirsten Holmstedt<BR>>> >>><BR>>>
>>>http://www.mil-mall.com/product902.html<BR>>>
>>><BR>>> >>><BR>>> >>><BR>>>
>>>It is an excellent read.<BR>>> >>><BR>>>
>>><BR>>> >>><BR>>> >>>Seeya round
town, Moscow.<BR>>> >>><BR>>> >>><BR>>>
>>><BR>>> >>>Tom Hansen<BR>>>
>>><BR>>> >>>Moscow, Idaho<BR>>>
>>><BR>>> >>><BR>>> >>><BR>>>
>>><BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>
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>><BR>>>
>>_________________________________________________________________<BR>>>
>>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_mini_2G_0507<BR>>>
>><BR>>>
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>>=======================================================<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>>--<BR>>> >>No virus found in this incoming
message.<BR>>> >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.<BR>>>
>>Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.8/904 - Release Date:
<BR>>> >>7/16/2007<BR>>> >>5:42 PM<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >><BR>>> ><BR>>><BR>>>
_________________________________________________________________<BR>>>
Don't get caught with egg on your face. Play Chicktionary!<BR>>>
http://club.live.com/chicktionary.aspx?icid=chick_hotmailtextlink2<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
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Release Date: 7/19/2007 <BR>> 6:10 PM<BR>><BR>>
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