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<DIV>Ellen,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>An interesting aspect of Crabtree's post is his not even cleverly
disguised hypocrisy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is room to debate whether boxing may have some beneficial results and
to debate whether the probabilities of the risks involved justify the
probabilities of the possible beneficial consequences of various
kinds. There is room to debate whether some of the harmful consequences
are really harmful.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is no doubt that Crabtree or anyone else is free to argue for, with
validity or not, their views on this subject. However, Crabtree goes
further than just debate the effects of boxing issue. He admonishes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"With all this in mind, what place is
it of yours to piss on someone else's parade?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here we have the Great Libertarian Crabtree telling others they should not
express their opinions ["piss"] on this issue.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>What a transparent phony!</STRONG> <STRONG>Whatever happened
to the most fundamental of libertarian doctrines: Freedom of
Expression?</STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So it's alright for Crabtree, Farris, and their mentor Wilson via Courtney
to piss all over others [like the rest of us sometimes do], but not alright for
others to piss on their cherished pets. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have said this before: I know and have known many hard-line
libertarians. The number of local libertarians who are in reality
dishonest hypocrites really contaminates the worth of some of the important
contributions honest, genuine libertarians can make to many issues. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There are some very thoughtful libertarians who post here and with whom I
sometimes communicate with off list. I can imagine how they must shudder
when the phony libertarian Crabtree makes utterances such as that cited above
and how they must hate to have their thoughtful views associated with such
pretentious ilk.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG>But</STRONG> Crabtree did contribute one piece if useful
knowledge: Some have wondered if Cultmaster Jr. Nathan Wilson had
possibly suffered one or more serious head injuries. Maybe the
boxing incident is evidence to further fuel this speculation.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=gussie443@hotmail.com href="mailto:gussie443@hotmail.com">Ellen
Roskovich</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@adelphia.net
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">jampot@adelphia.net</A> ; <A
title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</A>
; <A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">privatejf32@hotmail.com</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 13, 2007 10:55 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] AND THE BEAT GOES ON!</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><STRONG>Gary. . . . you may call me Ellen. Or, if you wish to be
formal, it's Mrs. Roskovich.</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>Boxing IS dangerous. . . and makes about as much sense as a cock
fight. It's not for kids. As hard as I try, I cannot think of one
positive life lesson a young person would learn from the
experience.</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>Ellen A. Roskovich</STRONG><BR><BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
<HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
From: <I>"g. crabtree" <<A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">jampot@adelphia.net</A>></I><BR>To:
<I>"Tom Hansen" <<A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com>,"'Ellen">thansen@moscow.com>,"'Ellen</A>
Roskovich'" <<A
href="mailto:gussie443@hotmail.com>,<privatejf32@hotmail.com>,<vision2020@moscow.com">gussie443@hotmail.com>,<privatejf32@hotmail.com>,<vision2020@moscow.com</A>></I><BR>Subject:
<I>Re: [Vision2020] AND THE BEAT GOES ON!</I><BR>Date: <I>Fri, 13 Jul 2007
20:40:27 -0700</I><BR><BR>
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>According to Ms. Roscovich and Ms. Mix it's all
about the "danger" and the "physical aggression." In what way do the pieces of
paper that you refer to make the event different, more feminine? Does
the notion of men getting together to have a bit of fun with other men leave
you feeling uncomfortable? Or is it really more about the who then anything
having to do with the what?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is my understanding that the event happened
under the tutelage of a retired professional boxer, that ABA approved headgear
was worn by all participants, that absolutely no one was seriously injured
(one punch was expertly blocked by the nose of one of the
warriors but he lived to tell the tale and more importantly learned a
valuable lesson in keeping his gloves up and his chin down.)
and that a good time was had by all. With all this in mind, what place is it
of yours to piss on someone else's parade?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">---- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@adelphia.net
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">'g. crabtree'</A> ; <A
title=gussie443@hotmail.com href="mailto:gussie443@hotmail.com">'Ellen
Roskovich'</A> ; <A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">privatejf32@hotmail.com</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 13, 2007 6:11
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] AND THE BEAT
GOES ON!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">g
stated:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“The combative
sports (boxing, judo, karate, wrestling, etc.) result in far fewer injury's
than football, rock climbing, skate boarding, mountain biking and skiing at
the amateur level. Even cheer leading results in more emergency room visits!
Would you have every "sport" that is potentially dangerous be eliminated
from the extracurricular activities list?”</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This may very well
be true, g, among professionals and/or in a venue specifically designed for
that sport with the requisite safety measures established and maintained,
not at a school lacking the appropriate facilities and void of the
aforementioned safety measures.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In each of the
“organized” activities you mention (boxing, judo, karate, wrestling,
football, rock climbing, skate boarding, mountain biking, skiing, etc.),
there are certain requirements (health, insurance, waivers, etc. etc.) that
MUST be accomplished prior to any competitor engaging in their sport.
Based on a Viz discussion, concerning the Logos School “smokers” (as
they are called) a while back, it was painfully evident that NONE of these
requirements was even considered, much less accomplished.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR><BR>Tom
Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000
college students. The college students are not very active in local
elections (thank goodness!)."<BR><BR>- Dale Courtney (March 28,
2007)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">
</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR
clear=all>
<HR>
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<P></P>
<DIV>
<P><STRONG>Gary. . . . you may call me Ellen. Or, if you wish to be
formal, it's Mrs. Roskovich.</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>Boxing IS dangerous. . . and makes about as much sense as a cock
fight. It's not for kids. As hard as I try, I cannot think of one
positive life lesson a young person would learn from the
experience.</STRONG></P>
<P><STRONG>Ellen A. Roskovich</STRONG><BR><BR></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #a0c6e5 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><FONT
style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">
<HR color=#a0c6e5 SIZE=1>
From: <I>"g. crabtree" <jampot@adelphia.net></I><BR>To: <I>"Tom Hansen"
<thansen@moscow.com>,"'Ellen Roskovich'"
<gussie443@hotmail.com>,<privatejf32@hotmail.com>,<vision2020@moscow.com></I><BR>Subject:
<I>Re: [Vision2020] AND THE BEAT GOES ON!</I><BR>Date: <I>Fri, 13 Jul 2007
20:40:27 -0700</I><BR><BR>
<META content="Microsoft SafeHTML" name=Generator>
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{margin:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;font-family:'Times New Roman';}
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>According to Ms. Roscovich and Ms. Mix it's all
about the "danger" and the "physical aggression." In what way do the pieces of
paper that you refer to make the event different, more feminine? Does
the notion of men getting together to have a bit of fun with other men leave
you feeling uncomfortable? Or is it really more about the who then anything
having to do with the what?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></FONT><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It is my understanding that the event happened
under the tutelage of a retired professional boxer, that ABA approved headgear
was worn by all participants, that absolutely no one was seriously injured
(one punch was expertly blocked by the nose of one of the
warriors but he lived to tell the tale and more importantly learned a
valuable lesson in keeping his gloves up and his chin down.)
and that a good time was had by all. With all this in mind, what place is it
of yours to piss on someone else's parade?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">---- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@adelphia.net
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">'g. crabtree'</A> ; <A
title=gussie443@hotmail.com href="mailto:gussie443@hotmail.com">'Ellen
Roskovich'</A> ; <A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">privatejf32@hotmail.com</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, July 13, 2007 6:11
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] AND THE BEAT
GOES ON!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=Section1>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">g
stated:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“The combative
sports (boxing, judo, karate, wrestling, etc.) result in far fewer injury's
than football, rock climbing, skate boarding, mountain biking and skiing at
the amateur level. Even cheer leading results in more emergency room visits!
Would you have every "sport" that is potentially dangerous be eliminated
from the extracurricular activities list?”</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">This may very well
be true, g, among professionals and/or in a venue specifically designed for
that sport with the requisite safety measures established and maintained,
not at a school lacking the appropriate facilities and void of the
aforementioned safety measures.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">In each of the
“organized” activities you mention (boxing, judo, karate, wrestling,
football, rock climbing, skate boarding, mountain biking, skiing, etc.),
there are certain requirements (health, insurance, waivers, etc. etc.) that
MUST be accomplished prior to any competitor engaging in their sport.
Based on a Viz discussion, concerning the Logos School “smokers” (as
they are called) a while back, it was painfully evident that NONE of these
requirements was even considered, much less accomplished.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR><BR>Tom
Hansen<BR>Moscow, Idaho<BR><BR>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000
college students. The college students are not very active in local
elections (thank goodness!)."<BR><BR>- Dale Courtney (March 28,
2007)</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=navy><SPAN style="COLOR: navy">
</SPAN></FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR
clear=all>
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