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<div>All-</div>
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<div>Given the subject heading of "church and paintball," and the subsequent discussion of knowing fantasy from reality when playing sports or games, it seems appropriate to point out that many of the absolutely held beliefs that organized religions aggressively promote, represent far more of an encouragement of a breakdown of the fantasy/reality boundary, than playing paintball could ever inspire.
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<div>I'm far more concerned about religions that teach that women must be subservient to men, that Gay individuals are deserving of punishment, that the scientific evidence for evolution or the age of the solar system and Earth must be denied, that the second coming is at hand, thus the Earth's environment is secondary, that only one book is the true revealed message from God, and other books claiming the same are delusional, that the heretics or infidels that follow the delusional book must be defeated, and that martyrdom in this cause guarantees a place in heaven, etc., than I am of churches encouraging paint ball games, unless this is part of their training to defeat the heretics or infidels. When people are willing to die in terrorist attacks, or ignore catastrophic threats to the Earth's environment, due to firmly held religious beliefs that are almost certainly a fantasy, the breakdown of the fantasy/reality boundary is a very serious problem threatening humanity.
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<div>The Temple of Reason, anyone? I don't agree with all of Sam Harris's arguments or beliefs, but I applaud his courage to address these problems head on:</div>
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<div><a href="http://www.thesunmagazine.org/369_Harris.pdf">http://www.thesunmagazine.org/369_Harris.pdf</a></div>
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<div>Ted Moffett</div>
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<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 7/1/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Paul Rumelhart</b> <<a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:</span>
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<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">Ellen Roskovich wrote:
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<p><strong>Video games? Don't get me started! Fantasy and reality. . . some never get it.</strong></p></span></div></blockquote><br>If they "never get it", then they have a problem already. If the line between fantasy and reality is already blurred for them, then any stimulus might set them off or cause an accident. A video game, a physical group game like paintball, a good book, a movie, or simply their imagination can do it. The problem is not the video game as "enabler", it's their inability to determines what's real.
<br><br>I'm fed up with the Jack Thompsons of the world (google him if you don't know who he is). He thinks Grand Theft Auto is a "cop killing simulator". What gets me is the people that say these things have never played a video game more complicated than solitaire or bejeweled in their lives. Frankly, it makes me wonder if they are the ones with the problem with discerning fantasy from reality.
<br><br>I've played many video games. I've shot fireballs at cacodemons, blown up gangsters cars, shot soldiers with a sniper rifle, run over aliens with an all-terrain vehicle, run over pedestrians for points, beaten up a female ninja while playing as a purple-haired schoolgirl, and have even chased a random person around a map with a baseball bat just for the fun of it. I've also jumped off of multi-story buildings, tried to take on a tank with a hand gun, fired a rocket launcher at my feet, and have reversed direction in a Nascar race just to see what the player death animations or crash scenes look like. Now, many of you are probably nodding your heads because you've found that that explains much about me you could never quite put your finger on, but I'd like to believe that it's actually changed my real-life violence quotient exactly jack-all.
<br><br>To tie this into a subject Ted has mentioned in another post, many male junior high students get more real-life exposure to establishment-sanctioned violence by playing football. Personally, I don't have a problem with that either, but it's more realistic than video games because you are actually hitting people with your body instead of pressing left on the left thumb joystick while simultaneously holding down the A and X keys.
<br><br>Here are the only times I can think of when video games have intruded upon my normal reality:<br><br>1. Sometimes while playing Quake with a group of friends my adrenaline levels will rise, especially if they keep lobbing grenades at me from high places.
<br><br>2. I've found it best not to go for a drive immediately after playing a couple of hours of Need for Speed without a break as I tend to drive more aggressively than normal.<br><br>3. I've sometimes had dreams where I am running around a map in Quake, with the pixelated graphics and everything. Usually after a multi-hour session of Quake has just been completed.
<br><br>4. When I've just finished playing Tetris, I keep trying to make the shapes in my visual field drop and interlock with each other for a few seconds.<br><br>Anyway, I guess my main point is that people know where the line between fantasy and reality is: it's one of the most fundamental concepts they ever learn. Children below a certain age will not and people with actual specific psychological problems may not. Everyone else does, since it's a survival trait. You may pretend that the red glowing burner is cold, but reality has a way of asserting itself in those kinds of situations.
<br><span class="sg"><br>Paul</span>
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<p><strong>Here's a "team-building exercise" Ellen-style: put your team in a canoe with a paddle and a life jacket. You don't hold your own, you lose your paddle. You still don't pull your weight, the other team members throw you overboard. Wow! Bet we soon have an award winning team!!
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<p><strong>Hey, folks, don't get too uptight. . . it's just "fantasy". . . .</strong></p>
<p><strong>Ellen A. Roskovich </strong></p>
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<font style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif">From: <i>Paul Rumelhart <a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><godshatter@yahoo.com>
</a></i><br>To: <i><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a></i><br>Subject: <i>Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: church and paintball
</i><br>Date: <i>Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:13:39 -0700</i><br><br>In my opinion, as long as you have a good grasp of the line between fantasy and reality it shouldn't be a problem. In that respect, it's like video games.
<br><br>I've played paintball, and it has more in common with the old games we used to play in the woods as boy scouts than it does with actual military training or conditioning. You know it's not real, which completely changes the dynamic. Nobody is drilling you, telling you how you might just kill somebody if you screw up, nobody is making it plain that other lives may one day depend upon your performance. It's just fun.
<br><br>A lot of companies use it as a team-building exercise, because (if you want to win) it forces you to rely upon someone else and to be relied upon to achieve a goal. It also enhances your problem-solving skills. I see no conflict with religious groups doing the same thing, myself.
<br><br>Paul<br><br>Ellen Roskovich wrote: </font>
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<p><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><strong>Dancing and making joyous noise is a far cry from slithering around in the bushes, taking pot shots at your buddies and keeping score on how many kills you have.
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<p><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><strong>Call me a fuddy duddy if you wish. No, I'll even do it for you. . . I'm a fuddy duddy. I do not like organized "games" that condition people to kill off their fellow humans.
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<p><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><strong>I would cringe at any group organizing this activity for kids and it would have opened the door for "discussion" at our household.</strong>
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<p><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11px; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma,sans-serif"><strong>Ellen A. Roskovich</strong></font></p>
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