<div> </div>
<div>Matt et. al.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I don't care if people want to put extensive biographies on Vision2020. I'm sure many of the list members have the most fascinating lives, and that the bios offered are given with the best of intentions. I was merely stating my preference for discussions that stick to ideas and issues, rather than discussions that focus on the personalities of list members, given how often these discussions degenerate into personalizing ad hominem psychoanalyzing nonsense that wastes bandwidth.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Of course the expertise and education of list members is worthwhile biographical info when considering their input on ideas and issues. Knowing who is a lawyer, a computer scientist, or a well published philosopher, for example, is relevant when considering the credibility of their comments that touch on these fields.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Maybe these bios do bring some people together "a wee bit more," as you wrote, though I doubt they bring "all of us" together a wee bit more. See Saundra Lund's quote below regarding "pollyana" and the realities of the Vision2020 list (and her entire post at the bottom commenting on the risks of personal info placed on the public global Internet).
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Given that I made several points in my post, I'm not exactly sure what point prompted you to write "couldn't disagree with you more?" That George W. Bush was elected based on a media driven "cult of personality," when his skill and knowledge were insufficient to wisely lead the most powerful nation on Earth? That personal information has been used against Vision2020 subscribers to attack them? Or do you disagree that corporations keep computerized data bases on US citizens, with personal information that those involved do not know is being kept?
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As to the second point, I believe it a matter of fact, discoverable if you have followed Vision2020 closely for the past few years, and/or if you can trust the veracity of what Saundra Lund posted on this subject in this thread (I read Saundra's "Copyright" instructions regarding her post content, and this is within the Vision2020 list, thus acceptable, I trust):
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>"Pollyanna has already learned the hard way that not everyone here is who they say they are, and not everyone here has pure motives."</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As to the first point, given the view held by a clear majority of US citizens at this point in the Bush presidency, it appears there must be a sizable number of those who voted for Bush based on his personal appeal and image, who now are reconsidering their opinion of Bush's expertise
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As to the last point, with a little research anyone can discover this is a fact also.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ted Moffett<br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 6/29/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Matt Decker</b> <<a href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mattd2107@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">All,<br><br>Ok I feel its time to make my once a month post so here it goes.<br><br>Ted I couldn't disagree with you more. This site and current topic is
<br>refeshing. It not only brings all of us together a wee bit more, but also<br>focuses on the fact that we are after all humans. All of which can be nasty,<br>but can also be thoughful. I highly doubt a computer wizz from algeria can
<br>take this info and use it towards their benefit. We are not providing<br>socials, or for the most part date of births, and such. So in other words I<br>believe you are being a bit paroniod, but is usefull info which we should
<br>all remember.<br><br>With that said here I go. Born in idaho in 1976. Moved to the cow around 81.<br>Gradimatated from our lovely high school in 95 and wanted an adventure. Did<br>amuteur kick boxing for a couple of years and decided to venture off to the
<br>marines. I served four years in our beloved corps and luckily got out before<br>911. Tried to attempt school with the gi bill but 12-15 credits and 30-40<br>hrs a week along with a newborn on the way was to much. Figured all of the
<br>prior wasn't enough challenge so I got married, only there did I meet my<br>match(god bless her). Then I purchased my fathers business Raindrop<br>Sprinklers and have been happy ever since. Love the outdoors, Football(DA
<br>BEARS), Good food, beer. Saga continues.<br><br>Cheers<br>Matt<br><br><br>>From: "Ted Moffett" <<a href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">starbliss@gmail.com</a>><br>>To: "Saundra Lund" <
<a href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com">sslund@roadrunner.com</a>><br>>CC: Vision 2020 <<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a>><br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Poster Biographies --<br>
>Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 15:05:11 -0700<br>><br>>Saundra et. al.<br>><br>>Saundra's post on the risks of personal info placed on the global public<br>>Internet is right on target.<br>><br>>But even if these broad risks are negligible, for the most part I am not
<br>>interested in the personal lives of Vision2020 subscribers. I am<br>>interested<br>>in discussion and debate on important issues and ideas, preferably<br>>documented with facts, apart from an ad hominem approach. More personal
<br>>info on the list might give more ammo to those who post personal attacks.<br>>Digging up personal information on Vision2020 subscribers to attack them<br>>has<br>>occurred numerous times.<br>><br>>Of course many subscribers are already in public life in government, or in
<br>>some other capacity, or have run for political office. These subscribers<br>>may consider their personal lives a critical issue deserving of public<br>>exposure, given the current climate of political discourse. Even in this
<br>>case, however, I find the obsession with politicians' (or others in public<br>>life) personal lives in many cases a destructive and wasteful approach. I<br>>don't care, for example, to consider personal issues that can make or break
<br>>a politician, how wonderful a family a political candidate has, whether a<br>>politician has had affairs while married or not, nor whether they go to<br>>church or what their spiritual approach to life is, What I want to know
<br>>are<br>>their professional capabilities for the job. I don't determine who is a<br>>good mechanic, airliner pilot or computer programmer based on their<br>>charming<br>>husband or wife or children, sexual habits, or whether they go to church or
<br>>not. Our current president is a prime example of a very flawed leader<br>>with serious professional limitations who gained the White House on the<br>>basis of a sort of personal good 'ol boy charm, coupled with powerful
<br>>family<br>>connections and a pious aura of religiosity, all factors that should have<br>>been mostly ignored as essential criteria by the voters. He won the White<br>>House in part due to the public obsession with the "cult of personality,"
<br>>not his skills and knowledge to lead the most powerful nation on Earth<br>><br>>It seems in modern life that the boundary between personal and public lives<br>>has become blurred to the point where there is such a lack of respect for
<br>>and recognition of the very idea of a truly separate "personal" life, that<br>>it is being deconstructed out of existence. And the "cult of personality"<br>>that modern media and public life feeds with a frenzy, is mostly a fantasy
<br>>world that can make or break a politician, and makes huge profits for those<br>>in the business of selling "personal image." Paris Hilton, for example.<br>><br>>Consider the computerized data bases full of personal info now in existence
<br>>on nearly everyone, with info about you that you never consented to be<br>>gathered and centralized, that is sold for profit in the corporate world.<br>>Astonishing!<br>><br>>Ted Moffett<br>><br>>On 6/27/07, Saundra Lund <
<a href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com">sslund@roadrunner.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>>Visionaries:<br>>><br>>>I think this is an *excellent* idea for those who choose to participate,<br>>>and
<br>>>I've enjoyed reading the responses so far.<br>>><br>>>But -- and I hope this doesn't count as a flame -- I'd like to remind<br>>>folks<br>>>to be cautious about the personal info they post in an open forum such as
<br>>>this. Some folks have done a great job of safely answering the questions<br>>>while others have put out information that makes me cringe -- it wouldn't<br>>>be<br>>>terribly difficult for a quasi-determined identity thief to run with some
<br>>>of<br>>>the info posted.<br>>><br>>>Remember, while it seems that only a handful of people participate, there<br>>>are lot of folks subscribed who read but don't post, so we know nothing
<br>>>about them or their motives. Further, the V2020 archives are open to<br>>>everyone anywhere in the world.<br>>><br>>>Pollyanna has already learned the hard way that not everyone here is who<br>
>>they say they are, and not everyone here has pure motives.<br>>><br>>>So, in general, please think twice before putting personal information out<br>>>on the Web, particularly in open forums such as this. And, if you didn't
<br>>>take time to read the internet safety article I posted from the Daily News<br>>>yesterday, it wouldn't hurt to do so *before* posting your bio.<br>>><br>>><br>>>JMHO,<br>>>Saundra Lund
<br>>>Moscow, ID<br>>><br>>>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<br>>>nothing.<br>>>- Edmund Burke<br>>><br>>>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through life
<br>>>plus<br>>>70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce<br>>>outside<br>>>the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of the<br>>>author.*****<br>
>><br>>><br>>><br></blockquote></div>