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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Salutations:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For a "critical thinker" you sure wasted no time in
missing my point in its entirety. If every time I wrote something germane to my
profession, (or my latest low watt radio commentary, newspaper
article, or news item that I imagined of deathly import to one and all*) I
posted it to this list I suspect that in no time people would scan the
introductory paragraph, see nothing about the illustrious DW or the esteemed NG
and hastily mash the delete button with the vehemence generally reserved for
home refinance offers and boner pill come ons. I don't think that because
something is important or interesting to me that it becomes necessary for me to
inflict it on the list. Being a simple blue collar schlub, I can't bring
myself to "assign" anything to anybody. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>* I see now this group now includes the rough
draft intros to future commentaries. Be still my heart.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ngier@uidaho.edu href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu">Nick Gier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@adelphia.net
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> ; <A
title=ngier@uidaho.edu href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu">ngier@uidaho.edu</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:36
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> That's not what I had in mind,
Crabtree</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Greetings:<BR><BR>I would like to respond to Gary Crabtree's
latest with this hypothetical:<BR><BR>Let's say that, out of respect and
knowledge of my audience, I did NOT assign my fellow Visionaries to read the
following articles, comparable in technical difficulty as the ones Crabtree
listed. Everything I've asked Visionaries to read (if they wanted to)
are articles and columns written for a generally well informed and intelligent
audience. I did not want to show off like Crabtree did below, so I did
not mention the following:<BR><BR><B>"Prehension and Intentionality,"</B>
<I>Process Studies</I> 6 (1976), pp. 197-213.<BR>"<B>Wittgenstein and Forms of
Life</B>," <I>Philosophy of the Social Sciences</I> 10 (1980), pp.
241-258.<BR>"<B>Wittgenstein and Heidegger: A Phenomenology of Forms of
Life</B>," <I>Tijdschrift voor Filosofie</I> (Belgium) 43 (1981), pp.
269-305.<BR>"<B>Wittgenstein, Intentionality, and Behaviorism</B>,"
<I>Metaphilosophy</I> 13 (1982), pp. 46-64.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/307/dialectic.htm"><B> Dialectic: East
and West</A></B>," <I>Indian Philosophical Quarterly</I> 10 (January, 1983),
pp. 207-218.<BR>"<B>Titanism: Radical Humanism--East and West</B>,"
<I>Dialogue and Alliance</I> 1:3 (Fall, 1987), pp. 53-69.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/RSUT.htm"><B>Religious Syncretism and
Unification Theology</A></B>," <I>Currents</I> 2:1 (Summer, 1990), pp.
10-14.<BR>"<A href="http://www.cnphenomenology.com/0601305.pdf"><B>
Wittgenstein's Phenomenology Revisited</A></B>," <I>Philosophy Today</I> 34:4
(1990), pp. 273-288.<BR>"<B>Never Say Never: A Response to Harry P. Reeder's
'Wittgenstein Never Was a Phenomenologist</B>,'"<I>Journal of the British
Society for Phenomenology</I> 22:1 (January, 1991), pp.
80-83.<BR>"<B>Foundations and Forms of Life: A Discussion of Gertrude Conway's
<I>Wittgenstein on Foundations</I></B>," <I>International Philosophical
Quarterly</I> 32:1 (March, 1992), pp. 119-125.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/confdeity.htm"><B>On the Deification
of Confucius</A></B>," <I>Asian Philosophy</I> 1:3 (1993), pp. 43-54.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/490/gahs.pdf"><B>Gandhi,
</A><I>Ahimsa</I><A href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/490/gahs.pdf"> ,
and the Self</A></B>," <I>Gandhi Marg</I> 15:1 (April-June, 1993), pp.
24-38.<BR>"<B>Hindu Titanism</B>," <I>Philosophy East & West</I> 45:1
(January, 1995), pp. 73-96.<BR>"<B>Ahimsa, the Self, and Postmodernism</B>,"
<I>International Philosophical Quarterly</I> 35:1 (March, 1995), pp.
71-86.<BR>"<A href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/conftit.htm"><B>Xunzi
and the Confucian Answer to Titanism</A></B>," <I>The Journal of Chinese
Philosophy</I> 22:2 (June, 1995), pp. 129-151.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/GB.htm"><B>Gandhi and Mahayana
Buddhism</A></B>" (in Japanese), <I>Journal of Oriental Studies</I> 35:2
(1996), pp. 84-105.<BR>"<B>Jaina Superhumanism and Gnostic Titanism</B>,"
<I>Scottish Journal of Religious Studies</I> 17:2 (Autumn, 1996), pp.
139-158.<BR>"<A href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/gpm.htm"><B>Gandhi:
Premodern, Modern, or Postmodern</A>?</B>" <I>Gandhi Marg</I> 17:3 (Oct.-Dec.,
1996), pp. 261-281.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/YogiGoddess.htm"><B>The Yogi and the
Goddess</A></B>," <I>International Journal of Hindu Studies</I> 1:2
(June, 1997), pp. 265-87.<BR>"<A href="file:///E:/virtue/GBA.pdf"><B>Gandhi,
the Buddha, and Atman: A Response to Ramashray Roy</A></B>" <I>Gandhi Marg</I>
21:4 (January-March, 2000), pp. 447-459.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/kantljsj.htm"><B>Last Judgment as
Self-Judgment: Kant, Autonomy, and Divine Power</A></B>," <I>Indian
Philosophical Quarterly</I> 28:1 (January, 2001), pp. 15-32.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/ConfGandhi.htm"><B> Confucius, Gandhi,
and the Aesthetics of Virtue</A></B>," <I>Asian Philosophy</I> 11:1 (March,
2001), pp. 41-54.<BR>"<B>The Dancing Ru: A Confucian Aesthetics of
Virtue</B>," <I>Philosophy East and West</I> 51:2 (April, 2001), pp.
280-305.<BR><B>"<A href="file:///E:/virtue/srao.pdf">Synthetic Reason,
Aesthetic Order, and the Grammar of Virtue</A>"</B><I>Journal of the Indian
Council of Philosophical Research </I>18: 4 (2001), pp. 13-28.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/gandhiVN.htm"><B>Gandhi and the Virtue
of Non-Violence</A></B>," <I>Gandhi Marg </I>23:3 (October-December, 2001),
pp. 261-284.<BR>"<A href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/GB.htm"><B>Gandhi
and Mahayana Buddhism</A></B>," <I>Gandhi Marg </I>25:2 (July-September,
2003), pp. 155-178.<BR> English version of article above.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/nvcvlong.htm"><B> Non-Violence as a
Civic Virtue: Gandhi as a Reformed Liberal</A></B>," <I>International Journal
of Hindu Studies </I>7 (2003), pp. 75-98.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/wcav.htm"><B>Whitehead, Confucius, and
the Aesthetics of Virtue</A></B>," <I>Asian Philosophy</I> 14:2 (July, 2004),
pp. 173-92.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/tucker.htm"><B>Response to John Allen
Tucker's Review of </A><A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/tucker.htm"><I>Spiritual
Titanism</A></B>," China Review International</I> <BR>12:1 (January, 2006),
pp. 277-280<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/gandhiconseq.htm"><B> Virtue Ethics
and Character Consequentialism</A></B>," <I>Dialogue: A Journal of Religion
and Philosophy</I> <BR>Number 26 (Spring, 2006), pp. 18-21.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/HBselves.htm"><B>Hebrew and Buddhist
Selves: A Constructive Postmodern Proposal</A></B>," <BR><I>Asian
Philosophy</I> 17:1 (March, 2007), pp. 47-64.<BR>"<B>A Response to Shyam
Ranganathan's Review of <I>The Virtue of Non-Violence</I></B>,"
<BR><I>Philosophy East and West</I> 57:4 (October, 2007).<BR>With Paul K.
Kjellberg, "<B>Buddhism and the Freedom of the Will</B>" in
<BR><I>Freedom and Determinism: Topics in Contemporary
Philosophy</I>,<BR>eds., J. K. Campbell, D. Shier, M. O’Rourke (Cambridge: MIT
Press, 2004), pp. 277-304.<BR>"<A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/hinduVE.htm"><B>Toward a Hindu Virtue
Ethics</A></B>" in <I>Contemporary Issues in Constructive Dharma</I>,<BR>eds.
R. D. Sherma and A. Deepak (Hampton, VA: Deepak Heritage Books, 2005), vol. 2,
pp. 151-162.<BR><BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">I would like to respond to
Nicholas Gier's latest with this hypothetical:<BR><BR>Lets say I post the
article that I am about to submit to the society of <BR>Institutional
Security Specialists on the pros and cons of the current crop <BR>of
biometric front ends and their adaptability to various existing audited
<BR>access control systems.<BR><BR>Then I post a paper I'm about to submit
to the Associated Locksmiths of <BR>America on the topic of my latest
technique for greatly reducing the <BR>occurrence of phantom masters in four
level systems while maximizing usable <BR>changes.<BR><BR>Then I treat you
all to the presentation I'm about to give at the Inland <BR>Northwest
Security Expo on hardware trends and the ADA.<BR><BR>And for your
edification, a treatise on strategies for avoiding glass <BR>triggered
relockers in TRTL60 burglary containers.<BR><BR>...keyless mechanical vs.
piezo powered on door stand alone entry sets.<BR><BR>...determining proper
amp/hour battery selection to provide effective back <BR>up for multi door
proximity readers.<BR><BR>...defeat strategies for the current generation of
pick resistant locksets<BR><BR>...servicing/reconfiguring bank undercounter
equipment. (coin vaults, cash <BR>trims, sig. files,etc.)<BR><BR>and so on,
and on, and on.<BR><BR>Would I blame him if he quit reading my posts after
two paragraphs, <BR>especially when it was clear I wasn't mentioning his
exalted personage or <BR>Douglas Wilson? I mean really, would
anybody?<BR><BR>g<BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From:
<nickgier@adelphia.net><BR>To: "g. crabtree"
<jampot@adelphia.net><BR>Cc: <vision2020@moscow.com><BR>Sent:
Friday, June 08, 2007 10:45 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Christ is
Commander-in-Chief<BR><BR><BR>> Greetings:<BR>><BR>> I would like
to respond to Gary Crabtree's latest with this hypothetical:<BR>><BR>>
Let's say that I post a one paragraph history of locksmithing and Crabtree
<BR>> takes serious objection to it.<BR>><BR>> Would he take me
seriously if I said that I refuse to read his extensive <BR>> writings on
the web about locks? Would he respect me if I admitted that I <BR>>
stopped reading his posts after two paragraphs? Definitely
not.<BR>><BR>> How would he react if I said that he was just showing
off and had a big <BR>> head? I'm sure he would think that I was
being a tad defensive and <BR>> evasive. We respect his expertise,
but those who make a living by <BR>> thinking critically and researching
subjects thoroughly get no respect, <BR>> especially from conservatives
on this list and nationwide.<BR>><BR>> Let me remind Visionaries that
Crabtree raised the issue of relative <BR>> violence and body
count. Let me repeat that this is not the focus of my <BR>> book at
all. It's his issue not mine.<BR>><BR>> Crabtree now says that I
unfairly took information from the early history <BR>> of a more peaceful
Islam, but earlier he claimed that Islam had big lead <BR>> on
Christianity before 1095. Which will it be?<BR>><BR>> Crabtree
speaks of Islamic violence in the "modern period." Can he verify
<BR>> any major violent events from the Emperor Aurangzeb (1618-1717),
the most <BR>> intolerant of the Mughuls, to the suppression of
Christians and animists <BR>> in present day Sudan?<BR>><BR>>
Saddam does not count because his atrocities were not motivated by <BR>>
religion. One always has to be reminded that the Iranian revolution <BR>>
against our corrupt Shah was a nonviolent movement led by the Ayatollah
<BR>> Khomeini from Paris.<BR>><BR>> I just re-read Karen
Armstrong's chapter on Islam from 1700-1870 ("The <BR>> Battle for God"),
and in Egypt we find that Muhammad Ali made Jews and <BR>> Christians
full citizens of his country (p. 119). Turning to Iran we find
<BR>> no religious violence except for the short outburst of the Babis in
<BR>> 1849-50 (p. 131). The causalities pale in comparison with the
Christian <BR>> Taipings in China, who killed far more people than Mao
ever did.<BR>><BR>> The Armenian genocide was an ethnic cleansing by
secular Turks, not <BR>> religious fundamentalists. As Armstrong
states: "secular nationalism <BR>> could be lethal and certainly as
dangerous as the crusades and purges <BR>> conducted in the name of
religion" (p. 191).<BR>><BR>> The Muslim Brotherhood , founded in
Egypt in 1928, was a peaceful <BR>> organization until the first
Israel-Arab war. Members of the terrorist <BR>> wing have been in
and out of jail under Egypt's secular rulers.<BR>><BR>> It is
significant to note that Hamas is a Palestinian offshoot of the <BR>>
Brotherhood which was funded by the Israeli CIA to counter Yasar Arafat.
<BR>> This was just as stupid as our CIA's decision to fund the Afghan
jihadis <BR>> against the Soviet Union. Talk about
blow-back!<BR>><BR>> Ooops! I've gone far beyond two
paragraphs. Sorry, but these issues are <BR>> complex and cannot be
summarized in one paragraph.<BR>><BR>> I afraid that one paragraph
summaries have been the way that Bush has led <BR>> the country for 6 1/2
years.<BR>><BR>> Nick Gier<BR>><BR>> "Gary Crabtree raised that
issue and I thought that his historical summary <BR>> was so off the mark
that I needed to respond."<BR>> Mr. Gier, In your response you cherry
pick statistics for the early years <BR>> of Islam to place Christianity
in the most unfavorable light (absolutely <BR>> no surprise there),
totally overlook muslim on muslim violence, and <BR>> totally ignore
muslim belligerence in the modern era. Numbers are always <BR>> subject
to debate but I stand by my original statement. As others have <BR>>
rightly pointed out, It's a silly and pointless argument especially when
<BR>> separated from the original topic.<BR>><BR>> Sorry it took so
long to respond. Till it was brought to my attention in <BR>> an off list
post, I was unaware of your attempt to set me straight. It <BR>> pains me
to admit that I (and I suspect many) delete any post of yours <BR>> that
runs more then a paragraph of two. I also avoid <BR>>
***.class.uidaho.edu/ngier along with ***.newwest. with the same diligence
<BR>> I apply to insurance come ons and porn sites. Life is just too
short to do <BR>> justice to the wonder which is you and I'll not insult
you by starting now <BR>> and only be able to devote my remaining 40/50
or so years to the task.<BR>><BR>> g<BR>>
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<P></X-SIGSEP><FONT size=2>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the
application of it to human affairs."<BR>--Ralph Waldo Emerson<BR><BR>"Abstract
truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by
proving their readiness to die for it."<BR> --Mohandas
Gandhi<BR><BR>"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system
cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each
part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life.
It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The
whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Ma</FONT><FONT
size=1>x Planck<BR><BR></FONT>Nicholas F. Gier<BR>Professor Emeritus,
Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho<BR>1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID
83843<BR><A href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm<BR></A>208-882-9212/FAX
885-8950<BR>President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<BR><A
href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm<BR><BR></A></P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>