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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>LLL (Latah Lounge Lizard, not to be
confused with <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Lois Lane</st1:address></st1:Street>)
stated:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>“Does my IP address devalue the relevance
of my questions? Yes, my IP address is a UI account. My understanding is that
the UI is part of the <st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City> and <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Latah</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>
community. Am I wrong?”<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Independent of all else, I would have to
say that the location from which you are posting doesn’t devalue the relevance
of your questions. However, coupled with your childish anonymity, No-Clue’s off-list
game of “I’m Rubber, You’re Glue” has proven more pertinent.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tom Hansen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Moscow, Idaho<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:navy'>"We're a town of about 23,000 with 10,000 college students.
The college students are not very active in local elections (thank
goodness!)."<br>
<br>
- Dale Courtney (March 28, 2007)</span></font><font color=navy><span
style='color:navy'> </span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Latah Lounger<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, June 06, 2007
3:21 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Vision-2020<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [Vision2020] Relevance of
some posts - WAS Christ is . . . .</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial'>Hi Tom,<br>
Does my IP address devalue the relevance of my questions? Yes, my IP address is
a UI account. My understanding is that the UI is part of the <st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City>
and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Latah</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> community. Am I wrong?<br>
<br>
So, to get back to the essence of one my original questions . . . .<br>
<br>
Why are messages that discuss the ins-and-outs of various religions (Islamic,
Jewish, Christian, Agnostic?) relevant on Vision 2020 given the board's clearly
stated objective?<br>
<br>
Why are messages and links to cartoons bashing various Republicans, Democrats, <st1:place
w:st="on">Hollywood</st1:place> types, etc relevant on Vision 2020 given the
board's clearly stated objective?<br>
<br>
Why are messages that discuss (both for and against) pot-smoking grannies,
illegal aliens, and gay marriage relevant on Vision 2020 given the board's
clearly stated objective?<br>
<br>
If one cannot tie their message back to the objective of the board (i.e., the
future of <st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City> and <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Latah</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>),
then perhaps the individual should consider posting it on another board. For
instance, there are thousands of message boards for political, religion,
drug-related banter.<br>
<br>
What if everyone posted non-Moscow or <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">non-Latah</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>
messages on Vision 2020? Perhaps I should request my friends in Engineering to
post esoteric engineering-related messages having nothing to do with Vision 2020's
stated objective simply because they live in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Latah</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>
and seek debate.<br>
<br>
Perhaps I'm missing something and there is some sort of twisted relationship
between the future of of Moscow/Latah County and the fact that <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">St. Augustine</st1:place></st1:City> made
Theodosius do penance for the atrocities at Thessalonica? Am I?</span></font><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</st1:place></st1:City><br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Tom Hansen
<thansen@moscow.com></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u2:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="State"><u2:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="country-region"><u2:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="City"><u2:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceName"><u2:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PlaceType"><u2:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="place"><u2:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="PersonName"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<u2:shapedefaults u3:ext="edit" spidmax="1026"/>
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<u2:shapelayout u4:ext="edit">
<u2:idmap u4:ext="edit" data="1"/>
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</xml><![endif]--></u2:SmartTagType></u2:SmartTagType></u2:SmartTagType></u2:SmartTagType></u2:SmartTagType></u2:SmartTagType></u2:SmartTagType>Just
for y’all’s edificaction –<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>The IP address for the computer used by
“Latah Lounger†was:<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>129.101.114.147<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Any guesses where that IP address is located?<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>64.126.190.123 ain’t much, but I call it
home.<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><u2:p> </u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tom Hansen<u2:p></u2:p></span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:City u1:st="on">
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Moscow</span></font></st1:City><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'></st1:City>,
<st1:State u1:st="on"><st1:State w:st="on">Idaho</st1:State></st1:State></span></font></st1:place><o:p></o:p></p>
</st1:place></div>
<u2:p></u2:p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><u2:p> </u2:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>"As more and more heathens 'choose' to not have children the
number of Godly souls will increase. If the number of Christian births out
number the number of Islamic births the battle will be over in 3 or 4
generations."<u2:p></u2:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>- Doug "No-Clue" Farris (March 10, 2007)<u2:p></u2:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b><span
style='font-weight:bold'>On Behalf Of </span></b>Latah Lounger<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, June 06, 2007
12:52 PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Vision-2020<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Christ
is Our Commander-in-Chief<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Importance:</span></b> High</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
<u2:p></u2:p></div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><u2:p> </u2:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Why is it relevant with regard to HOW MANY individuals were killed by
such-and-such people of a certain faith. Isn't it the simple act of killing and
the reason behind the killing that is of importance? Keeping scorecards of
"number killed" by "faith/belief structure" seems a bit
sophomoric if the ultimate issue is to address the REASON behind the killing.
Is one faith more evil or despicable because it killed 2,000 more than another for
the exact same reason?<br>
<br>
Furthermore, what does Gier's post really have to do with the stated objective
of Vision 2020: "<st1:PersonName u1:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Moscow
Vision 2020</st1:PersonName></st1:PersonName> is an informal, multi-partisan
group of <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:City>
residents formed in 1993 to encourage more public information and debate about
the future of <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:City>
and <st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceName u1:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Latah</st1:PlaceName></st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></st1:PlaceType></st1:place>."
I fail to comprehend where Gier's post, as well as many other posted here, has
any connection with <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:City>
or <st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceName u1:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Latah</st1:PlaceName></st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></st1:PlaceType></st1:place>. It
appears that several posters use the board as a soapbox to spout off their own
partisan or religious beliefs, or, in this case, to develop a thesis, without
connecting how their post relates to <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:City>'s
or <st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceName u1:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">Latah</st1:PlaceName></st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">County</st1:PlaceType></st1:place></st1:PlaceType></st1:place>'s
future.<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>nickgier@adelphia.net</span></i></b>
wrote:<u2:p></u2:p><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Good Morning:<br>
<br>
I would like to thank Gary Crabtree for the inspiration for this week's KRFP
radio commentary.<br>
<br>
<st1:PersonName u1:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Nick Gier</st1:PersonName></st1:PersonName><br>
<br>
CHRIST IS OUR COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF:<br>
RELATIVE VIOLENCE IN ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY<br>
<br>
I'm writing a book on the origins of religious violence and my thesis is that
there has been far more religiously motivated violence in the Abrahamic
religionsâ€â€Judaism, Christianity, and Islamâ€â€than the Asian
religions. Draft chapters can be viewed at www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/orv.htm.<br>
<br>
A person on our local list-serve Vision2020 had this to say about relative
violence in Islam and Christianity: <br>
<br>
"Up to the eleventh century Islam had a sizable lead. From 1095 to 1291
the Church picked up the pace and nosed ahead. It was neck and neck till 1834
and the end of the Spanish Inquisition. After that Allah's chosen made it no
contest." <br>
<br>
There are more than a few problems with this summary history.<br>
<br>
Islam could not possibly have had any sort of lead before the 11th Century
because Christianity had a very good head start. Under Theodosius I, being a
pagan was a capital crime, and even Christians were arrested if they practiced
even the most minor of pagan practices. <br>
<br>
On December 25, 390, Theodosius ordered the slaughter of 7,000 pagans in
Thessalonica. The British historian Hugh Trevor Roper called Theodosius
"the first Spanish Inquisitor," and "the Christian monarch who
introduced the world to religious totalitarianism." <br>
<br>
Bishop Ambrose, who baptized <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">St. Augustine</st1:place></st1:City></st1:place></st1:City>,
made Theodosius do penance for the atrocities at Thessalonica, but he still
proclaimed that "Christ was now at the head of the [Roman] legions." <br>
<br>
This reminds me of the sign outside a fundamentalist church in <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">L.A.</st1:City></st1:City>, right after the invasion of <st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region>:
"Christ is our Commander-in-Chief." I'm assuming that our born-again
president would have to agree with this demotion. <br>
<br>
Under Muslim rule Jews and Christians were generally asked to offer a special
tax, not their heads. The slaughter of 4,000 Jews in Muslim Granada in 1066 was
the exception rather than the rule, and Jews generally had much better lives in
Muslim Spain than anywhere else in Christian Europe.<br>
<br>
In 1099, men, women, and children were slaughtered indiscriminately when
Christian forces captured <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Jerusalem</st1:place></st1:City></st1:place></st1:City>.
An eyewitness reported that the Crusaders "rode in blood up to their knees
and bridle reins. Indeed, it was a just and splendid judgment of God that this
place should be filled with the blood of the unbelievers, since it had suffered
so long from their blasphemies." <br>
<br>
When Saladin retook the city in 1187, Christians were only required to pay a
ransom and then free to return home. Some of Saladin's officers paid for those
who could not afford it, and about 7,000 others were sold into slavery.<br>
<br>
In Muslim India Buddhist and Hindus were, incredibly enough, declared
"People of the Book," and the tax on non-Muslims was only
sporadically enforced and even more infrequently collected. <br>
<br>
Most of the ancestors of Muslims in <st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on">Pakistan</st1:country-region></st1:country-region>, <st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on">Bangladesh</st1:country-region></st1:country-region> (especially
here), <st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">India</st1:country-region></st1:country-region>,
<st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:country-region w:st="on">Indonesia</st1:country-region></st1:country-region>,
and <st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Malaysia</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region>
freely converted to Islam. Areas in <st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region>
where forced conversions were attempted are now the places where one finds the
fewest Muslims per capita.<br>
<br>
Some Mughal emperors ordered the destruction of Hindu and Buddhist temples, but
local resistance and intimidated Mughal functionaries meant that relatively few
temples were liquidated. Early Christian emperors were much more successful in
destroying pagan temples, including the one in <st1:City u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Alexandria</st1:place></st1:City></st1:place></st1:City>
that housed the finest library in the ancient world. <br>
<br>
Curiously, the Vision2020 post above ended Christian atrocities in 1834, but
during the Taiping Rebellion, Chinese Christian armies were responsible for
killing 10-20 million people between 1852-1864. I would hazard a guess that
more Daoist, Buddhist, and Confucian temples were destroyed by the Taipings in
12 years than 600 years of Muslim rule in <st1:country-region u1:st="on"><st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">India</st1:place></st1:country-region></st1:place></st1:country-region>.
<br>
<br>
Some have claimed that the Taipings were not really Christians, but that is
simply not the case. They took great pains to eliminate Chinese religious
influences; they enforced the 10 Commandments at the point of a sword; and they
followed the Bible very carefully, including the prophecies in the Book of
Revelation.<br>
<br>
Short of Osama bin Laden getting several nukes and using them, <br>
militant Muslims have a long way to go to match the historical Christian kill
rate. <br>
<br>
<st1:PersonName u1:st="on"><st1:PersonName w:st="on">Nick Gier</st1:PersonName></st1:PersonName>
taught religion and philosophy at the <st1:place u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceType u1:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType></st1:PlaceType>
of <st1:PlaceName u1:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Idaho</st1:PlaceName></st1:place></st1:PlaceName></st1:place>
for 31 years. See his columns as the Palouse Pundit at www.NickGier.com.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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http://www.fsr.net <br>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
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