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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Oh, there's plenty above us in intelligence! Just
reread some of the posts on the V, and one has to hope there is more thought
going on than is exhibited here!! And anything beyond our ken is
indistinguishable from Magick, so call it what you want if it gives you a sense
of security. Science catches up and surpasses superstition over and over
again...The supernatural is simply not yet understood.....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Debi R-S</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=carlwestberg846@hotmail.com
href="mailto:carlwestberg846@hotmail.com">Carl Westberg</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, June 04, 2007 5:14 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Follow up -
Islam the religion of peace!</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Ted,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One can believe in a God and worship without blindly following
religious doctrine.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Nor does it always follow that it would be logical to deny the existence
of God. For example, all creationism and evolution stories can be
followed with one final question, "And where did that come from?"
Somebody or something had to create matter or at least energy. We know that
energy cannot be created, so it must have come from somewhere and
somehow outside the current laws of nature, something, supernatural. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Further, you sort of contradict yourself in saying that we don't know how
the supernatural wish us to think, and thus think it logical to assume
they would want us to ignore their existence. You are counting yourself out if
they choose based on how we think, because chances are none of us are thinking
correctly about a being beyond our human comprehension. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I would also like to conclude by pointing out that for many people that
have experienced amazing unexplained phenomenon in their life at some point in
time find it illogical to think that there is nothing above us in superior
intelligence and ability. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Best,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Donovan<BR><BR><B><I>Carl Westberg
<carlwestberg846@hotmail.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">".....which
is more rational?" The Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, <BR>of
course. You can learn more.....http://www.venganza.org/ Carl <BR>Westberg
Jr.<BR><BR><BR>>From: "Kai Eiselein, editor"
<EDITOR@LATAHEAGLE.COM><BR>>To: "Ted Moffett" <STARBLISS@GMAIL.COM>,
"Donovan Arnold" <BR>><DONOVANJARNOLD2005@YAHOO.COM><BR>>CC:
vision2020@moscow.com, Carl Westberg
<CARLWESTBERG846@HOTMAIL.COM><BR>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Follow up -
Islam the religion of peace!<BR>>Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 15:29:01
-0700<BR>><BR>>Christians: In the beginning, there was nothing, then
God created the <BR>>heavens and the Earth.<BR>>(Some) Native
Americans: Raven created the Earth.<BR>> >From China: Long, long ago,
when heaven and earth were still one, the <BR>>entire universe was
contained in an egg-shaped cloud. All the matter of the <BR>>universe
swirled chaotically in that egg. Deep within the swirling matter <BR>>was
Pan Gu, a huge giant who grew in the chaos. For 18,000 years he
<BR>>developed and slept in the egg. Finally one day he awoke and
stretched, and <BR>>the egg broke to release the matter of the universe.
The lighter purer <BR>>elements drifted upwards to make the sky and
heavens, and the heavier <BR>>impure elements settled downwards to make
the earth.<BR>>Mossi (Africa): In the beginning there was no earth, no
day or night, and <BR>>not even time itself. All that existed was the
Kingdom of Everlasting <BR>>Truth, which was ruled by the Naba Zid-Wendé.
The Naba Zid-Wendé made the <BR>>earth, and then they made the day and
the night.<BR>> >From India: In the beginning there was absolutely
nothing, and what <BR>>existed was covered by death and hunger. He
thought, "Let me have a self", <BR>>and he created the mind. As he moved
about in worship, water was generated. <BR>>Froth formed on the water,
and the froth eventually solidifed to become <BR>>earth. He rested on the
earth, and from his luminence came fire. After <BR>>resting, he divided
himself in three parts, and one is fire, one is the <BR>>sun, and one is
the air.<BR>>Science: There was nothing.... and then it
exploded.<BR>>Hmmmmmmmmmmmm, which is more rational?<BR>> -----
Original Message -----<BR>> From: Ted Moffett<BR>> To: Donovan
Arnold<BR>> Cc: vision2020@moscow.com ; Carl Westberg<BR>> Sent:
Monday, June 04, 2007 2:50 PM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Follow up -
Islam the religion of peace!<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> Donovan et.
al.<BR>><BR>> I have heard your argument numerous times from various
sources. It is <BR>>specious.<BR>><BR>> Assuming we do not know for
certain what God, the Goddess, Gods or <BR>>Goddesses, or various other
possible forms of supreme beings or powers, <BR>>will regard as the
correct way of thinking, it remains possible that being <BR>>agnostic
will be regarded by the supreme being, beings or powers in our
<BR>>universe, as the most laudable and rational response to the evidence
based <BR>>on reason. Therefore agnostics may turn out to be the chosen
people, and <BR>>the so called "faithful" will be viewed in a less than
favorable light for <BR>>their blind allegiance to dogmatic doctrines
that are not supported <BR>>sufficiently by evidence or
reason.<BR>><BR>> Ted Moffett<BR>><BR>><BR>> On 5/31/07,
Donovan Arnold <DONOVANJARNOLD2005@YAHOO.COM>wrote:<BR>>
Carl,<BR>><BR>> It is illogical to be agnostic. If you die, which you
will, and there <BR>>is in fact a God, you best have worshiped him. On
the other, if there is no <BR>>God, it won't count against
you.<BR>><BR>> Best,<BR>><BR>> Donovan<BR>><BR>><BR>>
keely emerinemix <KJAJMIX1@MSN.COM>wrote:<BR>> And, as one of your
Christian friends, I love you for that, Carl.<BR>><BR>> No, wait -- I
hate you. I think.<BR>><BR>> AAARRRRGGGHHHH! It's so confusing -- who
to hate, who to love, who <BR>>to pray against, who to call "brother" or
"sister," who to make fun of. <BR>>If only there were a guide . .
.<BR>><BR>> keely<BR>><BR>> > From:
carlwestberg846@hotmail.com<BR>> > To: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>
> Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:13:26 -0700<BR>> > Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Follow up - Islam the religion of peace!<BR>> ><BR>>
> The repeated attempts by certain Christian folk to convince me
<BR>>that by the<BR>> > mere fact of being Muslim, one is evil,
makes me all the more <BR>>convinced that<BR>> > to remain an
agnostic who has Muslims and Christians in his circle <BR>>of<BR>>
> friends is the right choice. Carl Westberg Jr.<BR>> ><BR>>
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