<DIV>Paul,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since when has marriage been between two consenting adults? Marriage is about social, legal and economic issues, not love, passion or consent. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Marriage is a female and political creation designed to give women control of their man's property if he dies because she has herself and offspring to care for. It was also designed, of course, to control woman and put the women under the authority of the man. I could not imagine gay men marrying in droves if it became legal in all states. It is pretty much just a point of principle to make it legal, not a point of desire or need of gay men wishing to tie the knot. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Civil Unions are legal in several states now, how many gay married couples do you know? Not many if any I bet. I think what needs to happen is that all people need to just be given certain rights, the same rights, and they can
transfer those rights to whomever they want. There is just as much discrimination against single people as there is people that want to marry the same legal gender or more than one person. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What people are truly after is the thousands of federal entitlements given to married couples that are denied single people. If you were to give those thousands of entitlements to single people marriage and civil unions would lose any real legal meaning or significance. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><BR><B><I>Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Why is it not a state issue? Why not open it up so that any two <BR>consenting adults can marry each other and gain the benefits that <BR>heterosexual couples currently enjoy? The individual churches can
still <BR>refuse to marry any two people based upon whatever criteria they care to <BR>name. There are plenty of religions that don't have a problem with it. <BR>So why should they be restricted in what they can do simply because some <BR>other groups does have a problem with it? This is why the separation of <BR>church and state is a good thing. It provides a framework that people <BR>of all different creeds can use as they see fit.<BR><BR>I really wish church leaders would govern their own flocks, and stop <BR>trying to control all the other faiths.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>pkraut@moscow.com wrote:<BR>> You are trying to argue with the state and this is a church issue. The <BR>> church does not want to marry homosexuals because the bible talks about it <BR>> being an no-no. The church also questioned marrying outside of their <BR>> religion and race because the bible suggests it is not a good thing. By <BR>> taking the issue to the church you would actually have
to discuss this <BR>> problem with some reality which of course is why it is presented to the <BR>> state. If the church decided to marry outside of race you need to seek the <BR>> answer from churches. There are churches that are willing to marry <BR>> homosexuals also...with some of the same problems that happened when some <BR>> chose to marry outside of race. <BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> <BR>>> >From today's (June 3, 2007) Spokesman Review -<BR>>><BR>>> ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>>><BR>>> Jeb Bush featured in gay marriage ads <BR>>> Lesley Clark <BR>>> McClatchy<BR>>> June 3, 2007<BR>>><BR>>> WASHINGTON - Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush, the poster child for gay<BR>>> marriage?<BR>>><BR>>> A coalition of civil rights groups that back gay marriage is using <BR>>> <BR>> photos of<BR>> <BR>>> prominent couples
like the former Republican governor and his Mexican-<BR>>> <BR>> born<BR>> <BR>>> wife, Columba, in an advertising campaign marking the 40th anniversary of<BR>>> Loving v. Virginia, a U.S. Supreme Court decision that gave interracial<BR>>> couples the right to marry.<BR>>><BR>>> The groups say they hope to use the couples and the court case to bolster<BR>>> their contention that marriage is a civil right that should know no <BR>>> <BR>> bounds -<BR>> <BR>>> even for those of the same sex.<BR>>> <BR>>> "We're honoring and celebrating something that just over 40 years ago <BR>>> <BR>> some<BR>> <BR>>> Americans said was immoral and wrong and could not happen," said Jimmy<BR>>> Creech, the executive director of Faith in America, a gay rights advocacy<BR>>> group that is bankrolling the ad campaign. "We're celebrating the wisdom<BR>>> that prejudice and bigotry was
removed from the law books and Americans <BR>>> <BR>> were<BR>> <BR>>> given the right to marry the person they loved, regardless of race."<BR>>><BR>>> The "Freedom to Marry" advertising campaign - to be launched Monday -<BR>>> consists of six ads that will run in two Capitol Hill publications, Roll<BR>>> Call and Politico. They feature photos of interracial couples like golfer<BR>>> Tiger Woods and his wife, Elin, and former U.S. Defense Secretary Bill <BR>>> <BR>> Cohen<BR>> <BR>>> and his wife, Janet Langhart, who have authored a book about their <BR>>> <BR>> marriage,<BR>> <BR>>> "Love in Black and White." Couples married to someone of a different<BR>>> ethnicity, like the Bushes, are also featured.<BR>>><BR>>> The ads note that 16 states still banned interracial marriages until the<BR>>> Supreme Court struck down a Virginia law in 1967, finding "the freedom
to<BR>>> marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights <BR>>> <BR>> essential<BR>> <BR>>> to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men."<BR>>><BR>>> "Jeb and Columba Bush couldn't marry today if discrimination were still <BR>>> <BR>> the<BR>> <BR>>> law of the land," the ad that features the former Florida first couple<BR>>> reads.<BR>>><BR>>> Bush didn't respond to a request for comment. But John Stemberger, an<BR>>> Orlando attorney who is spearheading a petition drive to put a gay <BR>>> <BR>> marriage<BR>> <BR>>> ban up for a vote in Florida in 2008, called the ads "a little bit <BR>>> <BR>> silly."<BR>> <BR>>> ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>>><BR>>> Seeya round town, Moscow.<BR>>><BR>>> Tom Hansen<BR>>> Moscow, Idaho<BR>>><BR>>> "Gays and lesbians stood up for
civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in<BR>>> Albany, Georgia and St. Augustine, Florida, and many other campaigns of <BR>>> <BR>> the<BR>> <BR>>> Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were <BR>>> <BR>> fighting<BR>> <BR>>> for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, <BR>>> <BR>> and<BR>> <BR>>> I salute their contributions."<BR>>><BR>>> - Coretta Scott King (March 30, 1998)<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> =======================================================<BR>>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>> =======================================================<BR>>><BR>>> <BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>> ---------------------------------------------<BR>> This
message was sent by First Step Internet.<BR>> http://www.fsr.com/<BR>><BR>><BR>> =======================================================<BR>> List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>> http://www.fsr.net <BR>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>> =======================================================<BR>><BR>> <BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net <BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
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