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<DIV>Mr. Schwaller,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>First, I am quite aware that some describe the problem of the pedophilia
using the sophisticated language that you suggest:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>"Mr. Sitler will probably never be "cured" - most people suffering from a
deviancy or "addiction" (not my word - I believe that terms such as sex
addiction or food addiction are inaccurate and without meaning, and those who
use them don't understand the meaning of "addiction" - but that is another
topic) cannot be "cured." The best one can hope is that the individual
learns what triggers the desire, and has learned how to effectively use the
thought processing and behavioral modification tools they have been given in
therapy to remove themselves from the situation and reduce the
desires and impulses. Think "reformed alcoholic or drug user" who is
presented with a chance do drink or get high. Most are never "cured" in
the sense they can ever drink or use drugs again without falling into the
destructive spiral of abuse. So the idea that Mr. Sitler has been cured by
his year in jail and therapy is rather inaccurate."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A simpler way of saying this is "some people learn to recognize and to
control their urges, others not." It would be hard to believe that Sitler
did not know that he had urges to sexually interact with children in the ways
that he did. I do hope that he has completely mastered how to control
those urges.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In any case your argument is simply about our different uses of the word
"cured." A friend of mind from high school became an alcoholic shortly
after graduation. He has now been a very moderate drinker for
about 40 years. I would consider him cured in the ordinary use of the
word. He was very strongly motivated to cure his problem by some very
traumatic events in his life.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The real problem is this. We do not yet completely understand the
nature of different addictions or propensities for deviant behavior.
Hence, therapies for many of these not yet very successful for some cases
despite the hype from some professionals in the fields dealing with these
issues, particularly when soliciting business. In the case of pedophiles,
the recidivism rate is generally found to be high even among those undergoing
therapy -- at least that what testified to in another case of a similar
nature. In Denmark, studies indicate voluntary castration of male
offenders seems to have a pronounced effect on the recidivism rate.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Further, as with any unhealthy propensity, there are wide ranges among
individuals afflicted with such propensities in the parameters of (a) strength
of the propensity and (b) the strength of the desire to deal with it. The
stronger the urge, the weaker the desire to control it, the less likely the
probability of success of therapy.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As for use of the term "cultmaster," I believe it accurately reflects
reality. If you like, I can repost the general criteria used in trying to
decide whether an organization is a cult or not. But again, you are free
to choose whatever definition suits your purposes.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As I am sure you are aware, the congregants of Christ Church are told they
are "saints" under the Calvinistic aspects of their leader's theology. The
behavior of the upper hierarchy of the cult is anything but saint-like.
Hence, the phrase "No Saints Around" reflects the realistic belief that the term
"saints" as applied to contrast cult members from the rest of us "sinners" is
quite egregiously misapplied. You may not like plain speaking. I
cannot recommend a therapy for that.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The tone and content of your posts have changed in a rather revealing
way. Perhaps, you can try to recreate the impression of not having a dog
in this fight or of not being personally involved by commenting on the
substantive parts of Ms. Fellon's words and/or the substantive parts of my
previous post including:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT size=3><FONT color=#0000ff>"I greatly hope that
Sitler does not re-offend.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>The
world does not need new victims or recycled victims of these defiling, and
sometimes life-altering crimes.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>[Another issue raised by Ms. Fellon:<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>Do the weak sentencing conditions in
this case forward general deterrence or provide sufficient
retribution?]<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns =
"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT size=3><FONT color=#0000ff>However, the reality is
that predicting whether a particular offender will re-offend or not re-offend is
very risky business. <SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>It seems to me
to be very, very risky business when the offenses are numerous, over a long
period of time, over wide areas, and where the offender kept a photographic
trophy website including some of his
victims.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT size=3><FONT color=#0000ff>I do not wish to
disparage Probation and Parole.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>However, they are overburdened and as such their effectiveness is not at
its peak.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>And as to polygraph
tests, they may or may not be helpful.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Googling can allow those interested to find suggestions of successful
ways to beat polygraph tests.<SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes">
</SPAN>Pedophiles are sometimes gifted with great guile.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>That is part of the reason they can
escape detection for a long time or even ever.<SPAN
style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </SPAN>I am not assured that Probation and
Parole or any one else for that matter including a professional counselor is a
match for a determined pedophile's guile.<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><o:p><FONT color=#0000ff
size=3> </FONT></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt"><FONT size=3><FONT color=#0000ff>Therefore, given the
risky nature of predicting whether re-offenses will occur or not, then in my
opinion, the error of assessing risk should be strongly on the side of
protecting children and the
community."<o:p></o:p></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV><BR> </DIV>
<DIV>On the issues of pedophilia some of the content of your posts have been
very instructive and helpful. If we can continue to discuss those issues
rather than things like literary style, perhaps we might further the cause in
this community of reducing the incidence of pedophilia and its painful
consequences for all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>W.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV>From: "Glenn Schwaller" <<A
href="mailto:vpschwaller@gmail.com">vpschwaller@gmail.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>To: "Art Deco" <<A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>>; <<A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Monday, May 14, 2007 4:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Give Sitler a Chance: Response to
Comments</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>> Mr Fox,<BR>> <BR>> For all I know, you might seriously
suggest that a convicted pedophile<BR>> be allowed around children.
Particularly children related to a person<BR>> you seem to seriously dislike,
to the point of juvenile name calling.<BR>> The fact you refer to it as a
"modest proposal" simply underscores the<BR>> seriousness of your inability
to see the damage to civility and common<BR>> sense I think you have
caused.<BR>> <BR>> Had I off-listed a response to you, I would have been
one of those<BR>> recognizing your proposal was irony. It was
irony. It was just in my<BR>> opinion, offensive and
inappropriate. To compare your modest proposal<BR>> with that of
Jonathan Swift boggles my mind.<BR>> <BR>> You state that "Mr. Schwaller
takes me to task for being a name<BR>> caller with respect to convicted
pedophile Steven Sitler. His<BR>> objection was to my use
of the phrase<BR>> <BR>> "to prove that Sitler has been cured of his
habit of debauching children".<BR>> <BR>> Your name calling had nothing to
do with you referring to Mr Sitler as<BR>> a debaucher of children. I
was objecting specifically to your use of<BR>> "Cultmaster" along with all
the other posters who use terms such as<BR>> "Dougie-Boy," reference to NSA
as No Saints Around etc etc etc. I<BR>> guess that was the proverbial
straw. This name calling serves no<BR>> purpose other than to reduce
your comments to so much blather. I find<BR>> it "ironic" that in a
town with such a wealth of intellect, so many<BR>> resort to childish tactics
to make themselves heard. Well we hear<BR>> you. I don't think
many of us pay you heed.<BR>> <BR>> If you read my post carefully, you
will note I was attempting to point<BR>> out that, contrary to your
assumption, I don't believe Doug Wilson et<BR>> al. think Mr Sitler is
"cured." I haven't seen anything suggesting<BR>> that Doug Wilson, NSA,
Christ's Church, Mr Sitler's attorney or his<BR>> counselors believe him to
be cured. If I missed that, my mistake. My<BR>> intention was to
give some education on this point of "cured." I'm<BR>> sorry if
you missed it. Given the fact you brought up this point<BR>> again at
the end of your post (. . . should Sitler demonstrate that<BR>> he is
not "cured" despite all their assurances.) it seems you can't or<BR>> don't
want to understand that "cured" is not an option in any sex<BR>> offense
case.<BR>> <BR>> Schwaller<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> On
5/14/07, Art Deco <<A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Glenn,
Saundra, Keely, et al,<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
This is a response to several comments made about my modest proposal with
respect to pedophile Steven
Sitler:<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "Wilson could petition
the court to allow Sitler to board at his daughter's and son-in-law's (the
Merkle's) home with their horde of children for the next two or three
years."<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I have received a number
of off-list responses about this proposal. All of those
responders recognized that my proposal was irony and extreme irony at
that. Not only was the posting irony, but irony heavily laden
with sub-text.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I would
never seriously suggest that any convicted pedophile or even any person
with a probable propensity towards sexually abusing children be allowed
anywhere near them, and in fact, quite the contrary. I had
hoped that anyone who has read my previous postings on this subject would
have seen see that.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I no
more meant to suggest that a person with pedophilic tendencies be placed
around children than Jonathan Swift would seriously suggest that we eat
cook and children, the ironic thesis of his essay A Modest
Proposal.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> To those that do not
think that pedophilia should be the subject of irony: We
disagree. In this case, irony was not used to poke fun at anyone,
especially the numerous, unfortunate victims of Sitler. Irony, especially
irony with sub-text, is sometimes an effective means making a point.
This time, some got it, others not. Some appeared to choose to
intentionally misinterpret
it.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> In addition, although
the prosecutor and the court have seemed to have evinced great gullibility
in this case, the probability that they would ever even consider such a
horrendous proposal is very close to
zero.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> That said, I apologize
for the lack of clarity in my writing that caused some to sincerely take
it as a serious proposal or an attempt to make fun of the victim's
of
pedophilia.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Mr. Schwaller takes me to task for being a name caller with respect to
convicted pedophile Steven Sitler. His objection was to my use
of the phrase<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "to prove that
Sitler has been cured of his habit of debauching
children"<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Although there
is absolutely no doubt that I have been and will be a name caller on
Vision 2020, this instance is not one of
them.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> One of the problems
in dealing with child sexual abuse is that many truly concerned people
are unwilling to discuss it openly and/or to discuss it in candidly
descriptive terms. I present some excerpts from the Sitler
case file below. Readers can decide if the "habit of
debauching children" is name calling or an accurate description of Steven
Sitler's actions.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
From: Case No. Cr-2005-02027, RULE 11 PLEA
AGREEMENT<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
2. The State agrees that
it will not recommend a sentence greater than a judgment of conviction
with the court retaining jurisdiction. The prosecuting attorney has been
made aware by counsel for the defendant that the volume and extent of acts
by the defendant are greater than the investigator's documentation. The
prosecuting attorney has also been made aware by counsel for the defendant
that similar acts occurred in connection with minors now residing in other
states. The State agrees that it will not charge Steven James Sitler with
any other crimes of a similar nature to Lewd Conduct with a Minor Under
Sixteen Years of Age based on facts he discloses in connection with
this
case.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Dear Mr. Thompson:<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I
have reviewed the Rule II Plea Agreement in State v. Steven Sitler, Cause
[sic] No. CR-2005-02027, specifically paragraphs 2 and 3. I
find that both paragraphs accurately stale my position in this matter,
wherein no charges will be pursued concerning disclosed Stevens County
victims for crimes similar to Lewd Conduct with a Minor Under
Sixteen Years of Age.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
/s/<BR>>><BR>>> John G.
Wetle<BR>>><BR>>> Prosecuting Attorney for Stevens
County<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
From: Letter to Judge Stegner from a victim's
parents<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Steven has
admitted to several incidents of sexual perversion. We personally
only know of the full details of his molestation of our daughter,
Elizabeth. When she was only two years old, Steven offered to take her
downstairs and watch her while the adults were talking upstairs. At that
time he forced her to kiss his erect penis. It was painful enough to be
told of the perversion that Steven committed against Elizabeth yet now we
have watched for the last six months as an admitted child molester has
been living in the comforts of his parent's home, whiling away the days
that should be spent in
jail.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
Please notice the use of plurals in the language above and make the clear
inference. In addition, the original NO CONTACT order issued in this
case (from which I will not quote) contains some other information which
generates inferences not inconsistent with that
above.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
There are many questions about the handling of this case starting with the
initial spawning incident to the court hearing last week. Time
now does not permit me to write a comprehensive
review.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> But from another
document:<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> The case was marked by
an egregiously lax law enforcement investigation including a six month
"escape" from local jurisdiction while the case was being adjudicated, a
much less than stellar prosecutor, very cozy cronyism between law
enforcement, the prosecutor, and the pastor (read: cultmaster) of a
so-called Christian church (read: cult) of which the pedophile
was a participant, boarder, and student, and no press coverage before or
while the case was in the adjudicated stages. [Steven Sitler was the
second sexual offender outed from the so-called Christian college, New
Saint Andrews (an adjunct of the church (cult)), in a very short
time. Many locals wonder if these two represent only the tip of a
large
iceberg.]<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
I have another question about the trophy website, especially given Mr.
Schwaller contention that the court was not made aware of this during the
original and revised sentencing but was aware of before last week's
hearing.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> The original plea
bargain contained the
language:<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> This plea
agreement is based upon the facts and circumstances as they
exist at the date of the signing of this
agreement.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> This seems to
indicate that the original omission of this trophy site evidence would be
grounds for a reevaluation of the appropriateness of the original plea
bargain and original and revised
sentences.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Here's another issue
which greatly bothers me: During the pre-sentence process, the
State's expert witnesses presented strong evidence that Sitler was a high
risk. Sitler's paid expert witness presented a rebuttal to
these contentions. When I reviewed the file (before it was
eviscerated by the court), there was no counter-rebuttal offered by the
prosecutor. Aside from the obvious inference about the prosecutor's
lack of action, I am left to wonder how the State's expert witnesses felt
about
this.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I
congratulate the Daily News (Saturday, May 12, 2007) for finally
discussing parts of this case.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
The following probably mirrors the concerns of many persons much more
eloquently than I ever
could:<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Sue Fellon, executive
director of the Idaho Coalition Against Sexual and Domestic Violence, said
the time sex offenders serve ultimately depends on the severity of the
case and the sentence that was handed
down.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "When someone gets a life
sentence and only does a little over a year, treatment certainly cannot be
monitored during that short of time," she said. "I think the jury's still
out on (whether) treatment helps
everybody."<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> She said there is no
guarantee treatment will keep those convicted of sex offenses from
re-offending.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "Pedophiles choose
a child and are seeking power and control," Fellon said. "(They) made a
choice, nobody makes them do
it."<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> She said pedophiles
usually aren't the type to cause problems in prison and generally are
well-behaved, which may help some get out early for good
behavior.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Fellon said there's a
message sent to victims when offenders are released
early.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> "Victims of sex abuse
and assault often choose not to report and go through all this," she said.
"This is another threat on the pile. (Sitler) gets a slap on the hand;
you'd get more prison time if you got a couple of
DUIs."<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> She said the system is
there to help the victim, but offenders often are treated with more
compassion.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Fellon said it's the
victims who end up serving the life sentence because they must live with
the crime for the rest of their
lives.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I greatly hope that
Sitler does not re-offend. The world does not need new victims
or recycled victims of these defiling, and sometimes life-altering
crimes. [Another issue raised by Ms. Fellon: Do the weak
sentencing conditions in this case forward general deterrence or provide
sufficient retribution?]<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
However, the reality is that predicting whether a particular offender will
re-offend or not re-offend is very risky business. It seems to
me to be very, very risky business when the offenses are numerous, over a
long period of time, over wide areas, and where the offender kept a
photographic trophy website including some of his
victims.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I do not wish to
disparage Probation and Parole. However, they are overburdened
and as such their effectiveness is not at its peak. And as to polygraph
tests, they may or may not be helpful. Googling can allow
those interested to find suggestions of successful ways to beat polygraph
tests. Pedophiles are sometimes gifted with great guile. That
is part of the reason they can escape detection for a long time or even
ever. I am not assured that Probation and Parole or any one else for
that matter including a professional counselor is a match for a determined
pedophile's guile.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Therefore,
given the risky nature of predicting whether re-offenses will occur or
not, then in my opinion, the error of assessing risk should be strongly on
the side of protecting children and the
community.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> I am not convinced in
this case that if Sitler re-offends, that he (a) will be caught, and (b)
if caught, will be reported to law enforcement given the nature of the
cult to which he has been entrusted, and the huge loss they would suffer
should Sitler demonstrate that he is not "cured" despite all their
assurances. [Perhaps, those that understood the some of the sub-text
in the original ironic post have all ready picked this
up.]<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> If
nothing else, I hope this continuing discussion provides motivation for
all of use to encourage the construction of a world where pedophilia does
not occur, and if it does, it propagators are dealt with swiftly,
effectively, and with justice for all, but especially for the
victims.<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
/s/ Wayne A. Fox<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> Wayne A.
Fox<BR>>><BR>>> 1009 Karen Lane<BR>>><BR>>>
P.O. Box 9421<BR>>><BR>>> Moscow, ID
83843<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
(208) 882-7975<BR>>><BR>>> <A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>
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