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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Gary,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Thank you for so clearly and with great
intellectual integrity replying to:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3>"Just so that we can all understand
unequivocally where <STRONG>you</STRONG> stand:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3>1. Douglas
Stambler claimed that Douglas Wilson molested young boys. If that claim is
false, would <STRONG>you</STRONG> say the Wilson was slandered?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3>2. Is it
<STRONG>your</STRONG> position that slander does not occur unless the matter is
(a) tried in court, (b) decided by a court, and (c) upheld on appeal should an
appeal(s) be filed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3>Please for the sake of clarity and
honesty answer yes/no to each of the two questions adding any explanatory
material you like. Perhaps, for the edification of the V 2020 readers who
are still interested, you can answer these two simple questions directly without
evading them or trying to change the subject."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Seems kind of chicken shit to me to evade these
simple questions which speak to the heart of the problem of trying by ruse to
win an argument by the use of a persuasive definition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>I agree that we have wasted enough time on this
topic. Those interested have most likely formed their opinions on this
early on in the thread.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 08, 2007 6:56 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>All right Wayne, last time up with this as I'm sure folks
have got to be getting mighty weary of this mostly irrelevant topic. I know I
am. Well here we go, one at a time and in order.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>1. Any time anybody writes a sentence they choose words
which may have differing definitions but settle on one for the purpose of trying
to make a point or simply communicating an idea. Doing so does not preclude all
other possible uses or meaning of that same word.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>2." Force my will on others?" I couldn't force my will on
my wife, my children, my pets, or my houseplants. If you can provide even one
example of this stupid contention I'll be amazed as I have gone through life
convinced my "will" was as ineffectual as my virtue. The surest test in this
particular instance would be to check in with the person I was writing the
sentence in question to. Did Ms. Lund think that I was "forcing" my will upon
her? I suspect not, and that she would find the notion that
I might would be laughable in the extreme.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>3. Your favorite obsession, Douglas Wilson. Sorry, I
refuse to indulge you in this one. Suffice it to say that I really think,
unequivocally, that your passion for all things Doug is beyond odd. If you'd
like to crow about my response to this question, knock yourself out. I don't
believe in encouraging these sorts of behaviors.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>4. The race. You propose a contest that you know could
never occur as some sort of test of....what? Look at this one from my
perspective. If, by a miracle granted to you by God Almighty, you were to win
I'd find myself tired, sweaty, mildly chagrined and in Canada. If I win, I've
beaten a geezer in a silly foot race. Sounds like a lose-lose situation to me.
Lord knows I'm not the fastest turnip on the truck but I didn't fall off it
yesterday.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I'd like to say it's been a pleasure, but...</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 07, 2007 9:02 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Well Gary,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>I am sorry that you can not understand the
simple fallacy of a persuasive definition. But that is not unexpected
from a pseudo-libertarian. Just as you try to force your will on others,
you try to force a restrictive definition on others in a context where such a
definition subtends only a small subset that the general definition used by
the other commenter's.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>To support your restrictive persuasive
definition you write:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>"With the courts judgment the answer
to the slander/libel question becomes yes or no. Without, it's
purely subjective."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Somehow in making this absurd statement you
forgot to comment upon the Stambler/Wilson example. And while it is
true that a court may enter a judgment in a defamation trial, that judgment
may be just as subjective as that any issued by the man in the street.
Or haven't you observed a protracted court case peopled by faulty or dishonest
witnesses on both sides? Or has it not struck you that the quality of
the opposing attorneys plays a great part in the outcome of a trial, perhaps
in some trials much more than the opposing claims of facts?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Just so that we can all understand
unequivocally where <STRONG>you</STRONG> stand:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>1. Douglas Stambler claimed
that Douglas Wilson molested young boys. If that claim is false, would
<STRONG>you</STRONG> say the Wilson was slandered?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>2. Is it
<STRONG>your</STRONG> position that slander does not occur unless the matter
is (a) tried in court, (b) decided by a court, and (c) upheld on appeal should
an appeal(s) be filed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Please for the sake of clarity and honesty
answer yes/no to each of the two questions adding any explanatory material you
like. Perhaps, for the edification of the V 2020 readers who are still
interested, you can answer these two simple questions directly without evading
them or trying to change the subject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Feel free to continue commenting on my advanced
age. Should you like to test the relevance of my advanced
age I would be glad to race you from the Bourgeau Lake trail head on the
Trans-Canada to the summit of Bourgeau peak. If you win the race, you
will have more to gloat about my advanced age; if you lose, you can use your
usual failure to meet the issue head on tactics or give some other lame excuse
as ways to divert attention from your failure. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><IMG height=238 src="cid:009001c791d6$016518a0$6401a8c0@LocalHost"
width=278 border=0> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 07, 2007 5:45 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you
harass someone,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I am well aware of the difference between slander and
libel. I have made the distinction in several previous posts. Since Ms. Lund's
meaning was clear and I considered the post to be informal and "friendly" I
opted to try and avoid coming across as a pedantic blow hole. Different
strokes for different folks, aye?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The definition I used for the term slander was
absolutely valid. I did not say that the term couldn't be used in any other
way but rather that by the definition I used there could be zero question as
to whether the offense occurred or not. Barring the restrictive definition of
the term we enter into the vague world of peoples feelings and personal
perceptions, a place where there is very little likelihood that people with
widely divergent world views and opinions are going to reach consensus. With
the courts judgment the answer to the slander/libel question becomes
yes or no. Without, it's purely subjective. It becomes maybe, perhaps and who
knows. Again I'm sure you are well aware of all this and are simply trying to
score points in some sort of contest that only you are completely up to speed
on. I hope you're having a good time. I'm a little amazed that a throw away
post regarding Rose's newest venture has generated this much traffic. Are you
having a difficult time filling the long, lonely hours of your declining
years?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 07, 2007 9:23
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>In the following the word "slander" is used
since it occurred earlier in thread, although the correct term is most
likely "libel" since we are referring to published material on the
internet. The initial and continued use of "slander" for
"libel" terms does not affect the gist of the arguments
below.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Gary writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>"Slander, being a legal term, would be
easy for you to prove to me by showing me the judgment that the court
rendered in your favor."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>There are at least three problems with this
absurd position. Gary has used this ruse before, so maybe I should
risk wasting a little time to expose it, although such exposure will be
unlikely to make even an Angstrom Unit of change in Gary's "<EM>The Art
of Deception</EM>" dialectical habits.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3><STRONG>A.</STRONG> <FONT
face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>"Slander, being a legal term..."<FONT
color=#000000> This is a classic example of the Persuasive Definition
Fallacy.</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"A <B>persuasive definition</B> is a form of <A title=Definition
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition">definition</A> which purports
to describe the 'true' or 'commonly accepted' meaning of a term, while in
reality stipulating an uncommon or altered use, usually to support an
argument for some view, or to create or alter rights, duties or crimes. The
terms thus defined will often involve emotionally charged but imprecise
notions, such as "freedom", "terrorism", "democracy" etc...."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Example: No <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000>true patriot</FONT></STRONG> would ever criticize President
Bush for his decisions with respect to Iraq.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>There are contexts
where slander is used in its legal sense. However, it is quite clear
that Keely was using it in the more general sense:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff
size=3><STRONG>slander</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top>
<TD class=DEFINITION width=17><B><FONT color=#0000ff>1. </FONT></B></TD>
<TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt"><FONT
color=#0000ff><B>saying of something false and damaging: </B>the act
or offense of saying something false or malicious that damages
somebody's reputation</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top>
<TD class=DEFINITION width=17><B><FONT color=#0000ff>2. </FONT></B></TD>
<TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt"><FONT
color=#0000ff><B>false and damaging statement: </B>a false and
malicious statement that damages somebody's reputation</FONT></TD></TR>
<P><B><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></B><!--EndFragment--></P></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT color=#0000ff>Microsoft® Encarta® 2007.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Hence, the clear use
by Gary of a "persuasive definition" of the word "slander."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3><STRONG>B.</STRONG> <FONT color=#0000ff>"</FONT>...<FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>would be easy for you to prove to me by
showing me the judgment that the court rendered in your favor."
<FONT color=#000000>Even if the meaning of the word "slander" is restricted
to its simple legal meaning:</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>1.
</STRONG><I>Law</I> Oral communication of false statements injurious to a
person's reputation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>the fact that no
court judgment has been issued, does not mean that slander in its legal
sense has not occurred. Almost all instances of
slander in its legal sense never see the any judicial proceeding for a large
variety of reasons. Even in its legal sense, the question of whether
slander occurred is more complicated. For example, even if false and
damaging statements are made, they may not rise to the level of legal
slander, although they would certainly meet the criteria of the word
"slander" used in its general sense above.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3><STRONG>A/B.
</STRONG>An example illustrating the above:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>In a Vision 2020
Post, Douglas Stambler alleged that Douglas Wilson, so-called pastor of
Christ Church, sexually molested young boys. If this
allegation is false, then did Stambler slander Wilson?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Since, there has
been no judicial proceeding on this matter (reader's are left to speculate
why), there has been no court judgment issued. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Under Gary's view,
then even if the allegation is false, Wilson has not been slandered.
Reader's can be the judge, but I would guess that if the Stambler's
allegation is false, I think most of us would agree that Wilson was
slandered. Perhaps Gary can ask Wilson if he thought that he was
slandered by Stambler's remarks the next time Wilson visits The Lock
Shop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3><STRONG>C.</STRONG> The use of the persuasive definition of
"slander" and its attendant fallacy by Gary is so clear that for most
reader's my above notes are hardly necessary. But one is left to
speculate why Gary would make such absurd statements.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Is it
because:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3>1. Gary is such a fool, that he cannot see the
absurdity of his statements?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3> or</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3>2. Gary knows he is running a ruse? In that
case we are left to conclude he is a phony and a liar, and not to be taken
as a serious, honest defender of various viewpoints.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>One could
continue to analyze the rest of Gary's response to Keely with its several
fallacies, some of them linguistic, but little would be gained for the time
investment required.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>When it comes to
political or ideological viewpoints, there has yet to be developed a method
to separate the true from the false (if that is even possible). Such
things are always subject to debate at this point, but sometimes progress
toward mutual agreement is made. Misleading ruses, absurdities,
evasions, etc obscure and stifle rather than forward progress
toward agreement in these areas. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Perhaps Gary could
make himself a much better defender of his viewpoints (or might possibly,
though very improbably, change them a little) if he were to take a well
designed logic (not rhetoric) course.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box
9421<BR>Moscow, ID 83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">(208) 882-7975<BR><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3><FONT
size=+0></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=kjajmix1@msn.com
href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A> ; <A
title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:17 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you
harass someone,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Keely, the remarks I made with regard to Rose's blog
were quoted verbatim from mail that she sent to me on the subject. I took no
editorial license, just straight from the horses mouth. (note the quotation
marks)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Slander, being a legal term, would be easy for you to
prove to me by showing me the judgment that the court rendered in your
favor. Baring that its just a disagreement concerning the facts. Snide and
nasty are in the eye of the beholder. Being mocked is something big girls
simply deal with. If you're going to have an opinion and attempt to inflict
it on the world you can expect for people to take exception. Are you trying
to get me and the rest of the fine folks here on the V to believe that you
have never displayed any of the qualities that you accuse Dale of? Never
been a little snarky, a little mean? Never fudged the facts to present your
position in its most favorable light? Don't even bother to answer, I'm sure
we all know. You're human, despite your attempts to have us believe
otherwise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@adelphia.net
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A> ; <A
title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision
2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 05, 2007 12:39
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ummm, hey? Gary? Rose's blog says she allows
comments. Just not bigoted ones. She gets to
decide.<BR><BR>Also, while we're on topic here, I can assure you, as
someone slandered and mocked by Dale Courtney quite regularly over the
last four years, his is not about news with a modicum of commentary.
It's just nasty and snide, with a modicum of respect for actual
facts.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: <A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">jampot@adelphia.net</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Date:
Sat, 5 May 2007 10:29:30 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My goodness, Wayne all those years of
bottled up spleen are certainly making themselves apparent in today's
posting aren't they? (what is it now, 101? You don't look a day over 98
but you are a testament to the notion that old and grumpy do go hand in
hand) Lets address your little hissy fit in the order that
you excreted it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You take me to task for the
sentence:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>"Apparently it's more
fun to simply broadcast your irrefutable wisdom to the world and not
have to deal with the unpleasantness of actual
debate."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mr. Courtney's blog is a news/items of
interest site with a modicum of commentary tossed in on the side. Not
screeds and lengthy personnel political rants. A greatly appreciated
aspect to his using this format is that items of interest to him
are not directed to and clogging up the greater groups inbox unlike
certain others who shall remain nameless.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In my memory of Dale's posts to the V he
did a fine job of expressing and defending his view points, as did Rose.
The difference was that Dale was the lone mongoose in the viper pit and
Rose sang with the choir. I perfectly understand how being the
minority voice can become tiresome and, eventually, not worth the
effort. In conversations I have had with Dale I have done my best, sorry
as it is, to convince and encourage him to rejoin the fray. Lord knows I
would enjoy an additional conservative voice here to help sing the
counterpoint to the rest of ya'lls dreary dirge. Do I have "distain and
censure" for Rose and her new endeavor? Not hardly, I'm not wild about
the fact that it doesn't allow for comments (as Dale's does) but I have
been assured that this is but a temporary thing and will change "soon."
I have been informed that comments must fall within "appropriate
parameters" and this IS a type of censorship I'm not particularly
fond of. I truly fail to see how anything I have posted might be
construed as being in favor of limiting anyone's free expression. You
seem to be laboring under the erroneous and fatuous assumption
that Rose and I are enemies of some sort. Nothing could be further from
the truth. We get on rather well, all things considered and I wish her
nothing but the best in her latest whimsy and I hope that it
doesn't suffer the same ignoble fate that lil' Joannie's
did.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Whether I have "exhibited yourself for all
to see as a phony" is for others to decide. What I have been trying to
express is my contention that more light (and heat) is shed in an
unmediated, unrestrained setting and that it's the venue that I,
personally prefer (even if it means having to endure silly fonts
& unrestrained use of color) for hashing out the topics de jour
as opposed to having to listen (read) someone hold forth ad
nauseum.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now hows about you have yourself a nice
little nap and try and get a little more fiber in your diet and see if
your cranky and constipated outlook don't take a remarkable turn for the
better. At your advanced age you shouldn't get so agitated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, May 04, 2007 10:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Well, Gary,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am surprised that you have the stupidity to mention and to
champion Dale Courtney's web-blots so soon after you wrote the
following about Rose Huskey and others:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"Apparently it's more fun to simply broadcast
your irrefutable wisdom to the world and not have to deal with the
unpleasantness of actual debate."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Are you too busy playing with your keys to see that Courtney runs
his own web-blots in part because he was not able to effectively
defend his positions on V 2020, and so that he may remove comments
that he doesn't like, or remove comments that point out where he
either misquotes, quotes out of context, or quotes incompletely to
give the wrong impression. It's all right for Dale Courtney, but
not for Rose Huskey?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Further, you pretended a few days ago to be staunchly
anti-censorship and a true defender of freedom of speech <FONT
color=#0000ff>"Censorship sucks"</FONT> were your words. Now you
express disdain and censure for those who dare, like your hero
Courtney, to express themselves in a blog - a decidedly
anti-free-expression position on your part.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You sir, have just exhibited yourself for all to see as a phony,
whose writings express a desire to control what others say and do
almost as much as do the cultmaster's!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box 9421<BR>Moscow,
ID 83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(208) 882-7975<BR><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g.
crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=thansen@moscow.com
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title=heirdoug@netscape.net
href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net">heirdoug@netscape.net</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 04, 2007 7:28 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless
you harass someone,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I know I'm probably going to regret this
but my curiosity is hopelessly piqued. Just exactly what action did
you take that would serve as a shining example for others to emulate?
Is it the thinly veiled vulgarities in your post? Is it maintaining a
hate web site against a small local protestant congregation? Is it
endlessly posting of news tidbits that you think should be of interest
to others? Is it your tireless and constant monitoring of Dale
Courtney's web site? I'd really like to know what it is so I could
thank you properly for your ongoing good works. (once their
identified)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>From:</B>
<A title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom
Hansen</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=heirdoug@netscape.net
href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net">heirdoug@netscape.net</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, May 04, 2007 5:44 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=EC_Section1>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No-Clue
–</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You keep
submitting gutless threats. Is that all there is to you?
My guess is “Yes”.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am going
to repeat a comment I made to you a long time ago:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“SH*T OR
GET THE HELL OFF THE POT!”</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Loosely
translated that means: Be a FRIGGIN’ man for once in your
spineless, ignorantly childish life! Crawl out from under that
rock of yours and DO SOMETHING. Either take action or SHUT the
EFF UP!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have set
an example for you to follow when I took action in the past (and
will continue to do so in the future).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeesh!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tom
Hansen</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Moscow</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">,
Idaho</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman"
color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">“Uh,
how about a 1-strike law. Death doesn't seem too extreme for a
Level-3 sex offender.”<BR><BR>- Dale “Comb-Over” Courtney (August 3,
2005)<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>heirdoug@netscape.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, May 03, 2007
9:17 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">And I quote, ".... course of conduct
constitute an implied threat."</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Wow J.,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">That would have to be the best example of
point proving since <SPAN class=EC_correction><SPAN
id=EC_>Joan's</SPAN></SPAN> "jack-boot-vasectomy-<SPAN
class=EC_correction><SPAN id=EC_>procedure"</SPAN></SPAN> from many
months past.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">There is nothing like being the poster girl
for the Intoleristas! Is there.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">D.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I'd tell you go do yourself, but you'd have to grow some first. Which isn't </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">about to happen this late in the game, now is it?</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The end.</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">J :]</SPAN></FONT></PRE>
<DIV>
<DIV class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1081283466x1074645346/aol?redir=http://www.aim.com/fun/mail/"
target=_blank><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Check Out the new
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<HR>
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