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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To the very best of my knowledge Dale's site is
open to all comers and has been at least since hansen got caught making the site
the obsessive focus of his taxpayer funded job. I believe that the ONLY
blacklisted computer on the Palouse is now the one at Our Shining Examples
workstation. As an Idaho state taxpayer I, and I should think you, would thank
him for that.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>On Saturday I spent no small amount of time rooting
about in the right mind archives, researching an alleged injustice against one
of the V's frequent posters. In the course of my search I found plenty of posted
comments disagreeing with the sites positions. What I didn't find was anything
that came up to the level where you (or Rose) think the censor's pencil should
have come into play.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Saundra Lund" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>sslund@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "'g. crabtree'" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "'Vision
2020'" <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cc: "'Rose & Don Huskey'" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 9:41 PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: RE: Rose's Cleaning House &
Comments</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>Hi Again Mr. Crabtree,<BR><BR>OK, I now have a better understanding of
your concerns -- thanks.<BR><BR>I still disagree, however :-)<BR><BR>Since
it's late, I'm going to just address one of your examples, but the<BR>same
would, I think, hold true to all of them.<BR><BR>Your example:<BR>"Topic: Gay
marriage is swell, Counter argument: The bible says that<BR>homosexuality is an
abomination. Result: Censored for being intolerant."<BR><BR>Your result is
wrong: I would expect that Rose, or others commenting, would<BR>point out
-- just has been done many times here on V2020 -- places where<BR>the
Bible contradicts that particular take :-) I know Rose well, and
I<BR>think education, rather than censorship, is her bag.<BR><BR>Now, if instead
of the wording you suggest, the comment was, "The Bible says<BR>that [insert
your favorite perjorative] are an abomination," I would expect<BR>that comment
would be censored because it contains a well-recognized<BR>homophobic
slur.<BR><BR>And, so on.<BR><BR>You also wrote:<BR>"I'm not saying that a
blogger shouldn't have the right to shape discussion<BR>on their site any way
they please but that it will never be the equal of an<BR>open and unmediated
forum such as the V."<BR><BR>Uh-oh . . . common ground :-) We
agree :-)<BR><BR>You also wrote:<BR>"As to Dales site, I have been a
pretty regular presence at Right-Mind for<BR>quite a while now and I have never
seen Dale censor a dissenting view<BR>point."<BR><BR>I'll state the obvious
before moving on: if Dale were censoring comments,<BR>you wouldn't
necessarily know because you wouldn't necessarily see them
:-)<BR><BR>Finally, you wrote:<BR>"How about you provide me with a few examples
of what constitutes these<BR>sorts of remarks along with the
URL's."<BR><BR>Well, I'm so glad you asked because this gives me the opportunity
to point<BR>out -- again -- that Dale takes his censorship to new heights, or
new lows,<BR>depending on your perspective: he blocks those he disagrees
with from even<BR>accessing his site, let alone making any comments. And,
in case you're<BR>wondering, no, I never broke any of Dale's rules -- since
you've got access,<BR>you can confirm this yourself.<BR><BR>But, it's Dale's
playground, and he's free to blacklist/censor anyone he<BR>chooses.
However, given that you seem to be genuinely concerned about<BR>censorship,
perhaps you should discuss your concerns with Dale as they<BR>relate to his
blacklist :-)<BR><BR>Oh -- if Dale's blog has the ability to search
comments, look for Chris<BR>Witmer. I know there were several others
(IIRC, Ed Swan's comments were<BR>particularly ugly), but it's frankly been so
long that my aging mind can't<BR>recall the worst of the worst. The only
reason I can remember Chris Witmer<BR>is because he was stupid enough to write
me privately in 2004 thinking I'd<BR>fall for his attempt to play games.
Needless to say, he made the huge<BR>mistake of underestimating my intelligence
. . . and my ability to Google<BR>:-)<BR><BR>So, while *for you* I might be
willing to take the time to go back through<BR>Dale's hateful blog to find the
examples you want, Dale's censorship<BR>prevents me from doing
so.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Saundra Lund<BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only thing necessary
for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<BR>nothing.<BR>- Edmund
Burke<BR><BR>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2007 through
life plus<BR>70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
outside<BR>the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of
the<BR>author.*****<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: g. crabtree
[mailto:jampot@adelphia.net] <BR>Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 7:22 PM<BR>To:
Saundra Lund; 'Vision 2020'<BR>Cc: 'Rose & Don Huskey'<BR>Subject: Re:
Rose's Cleaning House & Comments<BR><BR>Ms. Lund,<BR> Lets start off
with the area where we are in agreement. Rose, and by <BR>extension any blogger
has an absolute right to place any restrictions they <BR>see fit on their
"playground." I would never dream of trying to tell someone<BR><BR>else how they
should run their hobby.<BR><BR>Now, where we part ways. I didn't mean to imply
that Rose would ban the <BR>topics that I used and you quoted in your reply, far
from it. These are the <BR>sorts of topics I can foresee her going off on with
alarming regularity. <BR>It's the discussion where I see the censorship entering
into the picture. <BR>There are many examples available where during the
discussion of these sorts<BR><BR>of topics a dissenting viewpoint is
deemed intolerant and censored. <BR>Examples might include:<BR><BR>Topic: Gay
marriage is swell, Counter argument: The bible says that <BR>homosexuality is an
abomination. Result: Censored for being intolerant.<BR><BR>Topic: Blacks deserve
reparations and educational and hiring preferences. <BR>Counter argument: The
descendants of slaves enjoy a far better life in <BR>America than they might
have any reason to expect in their native country's <BR>and should be thankful
for their present opportunities. Result: Banned for <BR>being
racist<BR><BR>Topic: Women are discriminated against in the work place. Counter
argument: <BR>Women, due to their biology, take off far more time from the job
and don't <BR>have the same dedication to their professions that a man has and
as a result<BR><BR>don't deserve equal pay. Result: Struck for being
sexist.<BR><BR>I could do this all evening. I'm not saying that a blogger
shouldn't have <BR>the right to shape discussion on their site any way they
please but that it <BR>will never be the equal of an open and unmediated forum
such as the V.<BR><BR>As to Dales site, I have been a pretty regular presence at
Right-Mind for <BR>quite a while now and I have never seen Dale censor a
dissenting view point.<BR><BR>The only type of thing that has been censored has
been when slanderous <BR>comments are posted against the sites detractors.
(example: I see that so <BR>and so is off his meds again and...) Replies in
disagreement to the sites <BR>view point stay. Heck, he even left up ugly and
totally undeserved comments <BR>directed toward his wife. Far more tolerant then
I'd have been in a similar <BR>circumstance. Also I do not recall any kind of
racist, sexist, homophobic <BR>comments being made at Dales site. This is not to
say that I couldn't have <BR>missed them as I don't read every single topic. How
about you provide me <BR>with a few examples of what constitutes these sorts of
remarks along with <BR>the URL's. If they exist I suspect that they will bear
out my contention <BR>that a liberals view of certain types of free speech isn't
all that liberal.<BR><BR>g<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From:
"Saundra Lund" <</FONT><A href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>sslund@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>To: "'g. crabtree'" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "'Vision
2020'" <BR><</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>Cc:
"'Rose & Don Huskey'" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2007 3:11 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Rose's
Cleaning House & Comments<BR><BR><BR>Hi Again Mr. Crabtree,<BR><BR>You're
free to disregard the voluntary V2020 daily limit whenever you see<BR>fit
:-) I *try*, but I, too, have occasionally gone over the limit
:-)<BR>For instance, I'm not counting my latest response to Donovan towards
the<BR>limit -- I think there's a difference between having a discussion
and<BR>pointing out when someone has intentionally told a lie.<BR><BR>In any
case, to continue where we left of, you wrote in part:<BR>"I can see the
possibility where discussion of topics such as gay marriage,<BR>reparations or a
woman's role in the ministry or the military, or hate crime<BR>legislation could
be arbitrarily censored."<BR><BR>I don't recall reading anything Rose wrote as
indicating that she would<BR>"censor" certain topics, but rather that she
wouldn't publish "racist,<BR>sexist, homophobic, or anonymous
remarks."<BR><BR>Of course, it's Rose's playground and the topics will be of her
choosing,<BR>but I personally think it entirely possible -- and indeed proper --
to have<BR>discussions about gay marriage, reparations or a woman's role in
the<BR>ministry or military, or hate crime legislation (to use your
examples)<BR>*without* resorting to racist, sexist, homophobic, or anonymous
comments.<BR><BR>So, perhaps we just aren't talking about the same
thing?<BR><BR>You also wrote:<BR>"Anytime a single person with a strongly held
point of view controls the<BR>course of debate it is not a free and open forum
for discussion."<BR><BR>Well, I don't know that I would disagree -- Rose has set
up her playground<BR>with her limits, and the same certainly holds true for Dale
Courtney's blog<BR>as well: he set up his playground with his
limits.<BR><BR>But, that's part of the nature of blogs, isn't it? I've
always looked at<BR>blogs more as playgrounds, if you will, for those willing to
play by the<BR>blogger's rules than open forums where no one participant has
more control<BR>than any other.<BR><BR>Finally, you wrote:<BR>"If that being
"intentionally obtuse" I guess I'm guilty as charged."<BR><BR>Again, perhaps we
just weren't communicating clearly -- if I now understand<BR>correctly, you seem
to be more concerned about *any* blogger's control of<BR>topics, which seems to
me to be to be an intrinsic part of blogs. I, OTOH,<BR>was making the
point that Rose won't allow the kind of racist, sexist,<BR>homophobic comments
Dale welcomes and indeed finds amusing.<BR><BR><BR>Saundra Lund<BR>Moscow,
ID<BR><BR>The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
do<BR>nothing.<BR>- Edmund Burke<BR><BR>***** Original material contained herein
is Copyright 2006 through life plus<BR>70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy,
forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside<BR>the Vision 2020 forum without the
express written permission of the<BR>author.*****<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: g. crabtree [mailto:jampot@adelphia.net]<BR>Sent:
Saturday, May 05, 2007 7:24 PM<BR>To: Saundra Lund; 'Art Deco'; 'Vision
2020'<BR>Cc: 'Rose & Don Huskey'; 'Sue Hovey'<BR>Subject: Re: Rose's
Cleaning House & Comments . . . and THANKS, SUE HOVEY!<BR><BR>Ms. Lund, in
my current unfortunate position as mongoose I'm afraid I'm<BR>going to
occasionally thumb my nose at the voluntary three a day rule and<BR>today is one
of those days. You post:<BR><BR>"In most cases, I don't see anything subjective
at all about excluding<BR>racism, sexism, homophobia, or
anonymity."<BR><BR><BR>I'm afraid I would have to beg to differ. I can see the
possibility where<BR>discussion of topics such as gay marriage, reparations or a
woman's role in<BR>the ministry or the military, or hate crime legislation could
be arbitrarily<BR><BR>censored. We see examples of this quite regularly in
public education<BR>settings. Anytime a single person with a strongly held point
of view<BR>controls the course of debate it is not a free and open forum
for<BR>discussion. If that being "intentionally obtuse" I guess I'm guilty
as<BR>charged.<BR><BR>g<BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Saundra Lund"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>sslund@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>To: "'g.
crabtree'" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "'Art Deco'"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>;<BR>"'Vision
2020'" <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>Cc:
"'Rose & Don Huskey'" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "'Sue
Hovey'"<BR><</FONT><A href="mailto:suehovey@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>suehovey@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>Sent:
Saturday, May 05, 2007 4:02 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Rose's Cleaning House &
Comments . . . and THANKS, SUE HOVEY!<BR><BR><BR>Mr. Crabtree wrote:<BR>"Clearly
she intends to subjectively censor the comments made to her blog."<BR><BR>From
Rose's blog, I repeat:<BR>"I welcome your comments, but this is a monitored
website and I will not<BR>publish racist, sexist, homophobic, or anonymous
remarks."<BR><BR>In most cases, I don't see anything subjective at all about
excluding<BR>racism, sexism, homophobia, or anonymity.<BR><BR>Now, if you like
the kind of hate-mongering -- and attacks on minor children<BR>-- your pal Dale
allows on his blog, that's your choice.<BR><BR>Personally, I found the comments
on Dale's blog, as well as some of his<BR>"editorial" comments, reprehensible
and irresponsible. For me, the<BR>negativity far outweighed any newsworthy
items I might see there.<BR><BR>Different strokes for different folks, which is
why I'm looking forward to<BR>reading Rose's blog. I personally will find
the lack of racist, sexist,<BR>homophobic, and anonymous comments a breath of
fresh air!<BR><BR>You apparently aren't offended by the racist, sexist,
homophobic, anonymous<BR>comments on Dale's monologue. Different strokes
for different folks.<BR><BR>Do you Get It now? If not, then I can only
conclude you're being<BR>intentionally obtuse or I'm failing miserably to
communicate clearly with<BR>you. In either case . . . that's my three for
the day.<BR><BR>And, since I'm at the voluntary V2020 daily limit, I'm going to
add here my<BR>sincere gratitude for Sue Hovey's incredibly excellent and
thought-provoking<BR>post last night on Jerry Weitz's lawsuit. Thanks, Sue
-- you said it well,<BR>and I was honored to meet you at the Knowledge
Bowl!<BR><BR><BR><BR>Saundra Lund<BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only thing necessary
for the triumph of evil is for good people to do<BR>nothing.<BR>- Edmund
Burke<BR><BR>***** Original material contained herein is Copyright 2006 through
life plus<BR>70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy, forward, excerpt, or reproduce
outside<BR>the Vision 2020 forum without the express written permission of
the<BR>author.*****<BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: g. crabtree
[mailto:jampot@adelphia.net]<BR>Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 3:29 PM<BR>To:
Saundra Lund; 'Art Deco'; 'Vision 2020'<BR>Cc: Rose & Don Huskey<BR>Subject:
Re: Rose's Cleaning House & Comments (was RE: It's not<BR>"cyberstalking"
unless you harass someone,)<BR><BR>Ms. Lund, how does repeating Rose's
explanation from her site change<BR>anything that I have said? Clearly she
intends to subjectively censor the<BR>comments made to her blog. The fact that
you think it's swell and done for<BR>the most wonderful of reasons doesn't
change the fact that it's what she<BR>claims she'll do and Dale doesn't, period.
Now, is this explanation clear to<BR><BR>you? If it isn't, what point are you
trying to make, exactly?<BR><BR>g<BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From:
"Saundra Lund" <</FONT><A href="mailto:sslund@roadrunner.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>sslund@roadrunner.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>To: "'g. crabtree'" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "'Art Deco'"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>;<BR>"'Vision
2020'" <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>Cc: "Rose
& Don Huskey" <</FONT><A href="mailto:donaldrose@cpcinternet.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>donaldrose@cpcinternet.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:54 PM<BR>Subject: Rose's Cleaning
House & Comments (was RE: It's not "cyberstalking"<BR>unless you harass
someone,)<BR><BR><BR>Mr. Crabtree,<BR><BR>Here is an explanation that perhaps
you *can* understand since you don't<BR>seem to get it from what Rose apparently
wrote to you "directly and<BR>personally":<BR><BR>"I welcome your comments, but
this is a monitored website and I will not<BR>publish racist, sexist,
homophobic, or anonymous remarks. If you won't claim<BR>it, you don't get to say
it on my blog. Well, actually, I might publish some<BR>samples of dim-witted
emails in order to expose the intellectual and moral<BR>defectives that, sadly,
are not all together uncommon in this neck of the<BR>woods. I have never given a
fig if others agree with me or not, and I don't<BR>need external affirmation to
validate my beliefs, or prop up my sense of<BR>self-esteem. However, I do expect
responders to demonstrate civility,<BR>intelligence, integrity, and, it is to be
hoped, an abundance of good humor.<BR>Please note: the comments section is
not quite ready. I will alert readers<BR>as soon as it is. Thanks
for your patience."<BR><BR>Is that any clearer for you??? I hope
so!<BR><BR>Kudos to Rose for not intending to allow the kind of hate-mongering
Dale<BR>Courtney welcomes!<BR><BR><BR>Saundra Lund<BR>Moscow, ID<BR><BR>The only
thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good people to
do<BR>nothing.<BR>- Edmund Burke<BR><BR>***** Original material contained herein
is Copyright 2006 through life plus<BR>70 years, Saundra Lund. Do not copy,
forward, excerpt, or reproduce outside<BR>the Vision 2020 forum without the
express written permission of the<BR>author.*****<BR><BR>-----Original
Message-----<BR>From: </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>
[mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<BR>On Behalf Of g. crabtree<BR>Sent:
Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:39 PM<BR>To: Art Deco; Vision 2020<BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass<BR>someone,<BR><BR>I
stand (and without a walker no less!) by previously made remarks.
Rose's<BR>site does not currently allow comments and she told me directly
and<BR>personally that when they were allowed they would be allowed only
"within<BR>appropriate parameters" (note the quotation marks, her words not
mine)<BR>Dale's site allows commentary and he does not censor the remarks
that<BR>appear. When you or Keely make an unsupported assertion it does
not<BR>automatically become exposure of lies, but you already knew that didn't
you?<BR>I suspect you've been using these sorts of disingenuous tactics since
the<BR>Smoot/Hawley debates when you were a somewhat younger
crank.<BR><BR>g<BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: Art Deco
<</FONT><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>To:
Vision 2020 <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 12:51 PM<BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you
harass<BR>someone,<BR><BR>Gary,<BR><BR>Keely has already exposed your lies about
Courtney's the nature<BR>web-blots. I only view them when receiving a link
from a local person or<BR>from the crackpot tracking service to which I
subscribe. You'd be surprised<BR>at how often your hero Cultmaster Wilson
and his various toadies show up.<BR><BR>However, I take great, great offense at
your statement:<BR><BR>"At your advanced age you shouldn't get so
agitated."<BR><BR>I am only 350 or so in locksmith
years.<BR><BR>W.<BR><BR><BR>----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: keely
emerinemix <</FONT><A href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>To: g.
crabtree <</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> ;
Art Deco<BR><</FONT><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> ;
Vision 2020 <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>Sent: Saturday, May 05, 2007 12:39 PM<BR>Subject: RE:
[Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass<BR>someone,<BR><BR>Ummm,
hey? Gary? Rose's blog says she allows comments. Just
not<BR>bigoted ones. She gets to decide.<BR><BR>Also, while we're on topic
here, I can assure you, as someone<BR>slandered and mocked by Dale Courtney
quite regularly over the last four<BR>years, his is not about news with a
modicum of commentary. It's just nasty<BR>and snide, with a modicum of
respect for actual
facts.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________<BR><BR>From:
</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: </FONT><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>; </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Date: Sat, 5
May 2007 10:29:30 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking"
unless<BR>you harass someone,<BR><BR><BR>My goodness, Wayne all those years of
bottled up spleen are<BR>certainly making themselves apparent in today's posting
aren't they? (what<BR>is it now, 101? You don't look a day over 98 but you are a
testament to the<BR>notion that old and grumpy do go hand in hand) Lets address
your little<BR>hissy fit in the order that you excreted it.<BR><BR>You take me
to task for the sentence:<BR><BR><BR>"Apparently it's more fun to simply
broadcast your<BR>irrefutable wisdom to the world and not have to deal with the
unpleasantness<BR>of actual debate."<BR><BR>Mr. Courtney's blog is a news/items
of interest site with a<BR>modicum of commentary tossed in on the side. Not
screeds and lengthy<BR>personnel political rants. A greatly appreciated aspect
to his using this<BR>format is that items of interest to him are not
directed to and clogging up<BR>the greater groups inbox unlike certain others
who shall remain nameless.<BR><BR>In my memory of Dale's posts to the V he did a
fine job of<BR>expressing and defending his view points, as did Rose. The
difference was<BR>that Dale was the lone mongoose in the viper pit and Rose sang
with the<BR>choir. I perfectly understand how being the minority voice can
become<BR>tiresome and, eventually, not worth the effort. In conversations I
have had<BR>with Dale I have done my best, sorry as it is, to convince and
encourage him<BR>to rejoin the fray. Lord knows I would enjoy an additional
conservative<BR>voice here to help sing the counterpoint to the rest of ya'lls
dreary dirge.<BR>Do I have "distain and censure" for Rose and her new endeavor?
Not hardly,<BR>I'm not wild about the fact that it doesn't allow for comments
(as Dale's<BR>does) but I have been assured that this is but a temporary thing
and will<BR>change "soon." I have been informed that comments must fall
within<BR>"appropriate parameters" and this IS a type of censorship I'm
not<BR>particularly fond of. I truly fail to see how anything I have posted
might<BR>be construed as being in favor of limiting anyone's free expression.
You<BR>seem to be laboring under the erroneous and fatuous assumption that Rose
and<BR>I are enemies of some sort. Nothing could be further from the truth. We
get<BR>on rather well, all things considered and I wish her nothing but the best
in<BR>her latest whimsy and I hope that it doesn't suffer the same ignoble
fate<BR>that lil' Joannie's did.<BR><BR>Whether I have "exhibited yourself for
all to see as a<BR>phony" is for others to decide. What I have been trying to
express is my<BR>contention that more light (and heat) is shed in an unmediated,
unrestrained<BR>setting and that it's the venue that I, personally prefer (even
if it means<BR>having to endure silly fonts & unrestrained use of color) for
hashing out<BR>the topics de jour as opposed to having to listen (read) someone
hold forth<BR>ad nauseum.<BR><BR>Now hows about you have yourself a nice little
nap and try<BR>and get a little more fiber in your diet and see if your cranky
and<BR>constipated outlook don't take a remarkable turn for the better. At
your<BR>advanced age you shouldn't get so agitated.<BR><BR>g<BR><BR>From: Art
Deco <</FONT><A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>To:
Vision 2020 <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>Sent: Friday, May 04, 2007 10:57 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
It's not "cyberstalking"<BR>unless you harass someone,<BR><BR><BR>Well,
Gary,<BR><BR>I am surprised that you have the stupidity to<BR>mention and to
champion Dale Courtney's web-blots so soon after you wrote<BR>the following
about Rose Huskey and others:<BR><BR>"Apparently it's more fun to simply
broadcast your<BR>irrefutable wisdom to the world and not have to deal with the
unpleasantness<BR>of actual debate."<BR><BR>Are you too busy playing with your
keys to see that<BR>Courtney runs his own web-blots in part because he was not
able to<BR>effectively defend his positions on V 2020, and so that he may
remove<BR>comments that he doesn't like, or remove comments that point out where
he<BR>either misquotes, quotes out of context, or quotes incompletely to give
the<BR>wrong impression. It's all right for Dale Courtney, but not for
Rose<BR>Huskey?<BR><BR>Further, you pretended a few days ago to be<BR>staunchly
anti-censorship and a true defender of freedom of speech<BR>"Censorship sucks"
were your words. Now you express disdain and censure for<BR>those who
dare, like your hero Courtney, to express themselves in a blog - a<BR>decidedly
anti-free-expression position on your part.<BR><BR>You sir, have just exhibited
yourself for all to see<BR>as a phony, whose writings express a desire to
control what others say and<BR>do almost as much as do the
cultmaster's!<BR><BR><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box
9421<BR>Moscow, ID 83843<BR><BR>(208) 882-7975<BR></FONT><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>waf@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original
Message ----- <BR>From: g. crabtree <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>To:
Tom Hansen <</FONT><A href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:thansen@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
;<BR></FONT><A href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>heirdoug@netscape.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2> ; </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Friday,
May 04, 2007 7:28 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking"<BR>unless you harass someone,<BR><BR>I know I'm probably going
to regret this but my<BR>curiosity is hopelessly piqued. Just exactly what
action did you take that<BR>would serve as a shining example for others to
emulate? Is it the thinly<BR>veiled vulgarities in your post? Is it maintaining
a hate web site against a<BR>small local protestant congregation? Is it
endlessly posting of news tidbits<BR>that you think should be of interest to
others? Is it your tireless and<BR>constant monitoring of Dale Courtney's web
site? I'd really like to know<BR>what it is so I could thank you properly for
your ongoing good works. (once<BR>their identified)<BR><BR>g<BR><BR>-----
Original Message ----- <BR>From: Tom Hansen <</FONT><A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:thansen@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR><BR>To: </FONT><A href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>heirdoug@netscape.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>
;<BR></FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Friday,
May 04, 2007 5:44 AM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not<BR>"cyberstalking"
unless you harass someone,<BR><BR><BR>No-Clue -<BR><BR><BR><BR>You keep
submitting gutless threats. Is<BR>that all there is to you? My guess
is "Yes".<BR><BR><BR><BR>I am going to repeat a comment I made to you<BR>a long
time ago:<BR><BR><BR><BR>"SH*T OR GET THE HELL OFF THE
POT!"<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loosely translated that means: Be a<BR>FRIGGIN' man
for once in your spineless, ignorantly childish life! Crawl<BR>out from
under that rock of yours and DO SOMETHING. Either take action or<BR>SHUT
the EFF UP!<BR><BR><BR><BR>I have set an example for you to follow when<BR>I
took action in the past (and will continue to do so in the
future).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Jeesh!<BR><BR><BR><BR>Tom Hansen<BR><BR>Moscow,
Idaho<BR><BR><BR><BR>"Uh, how about a 1-strike law. Death doesn't<BR>seem too
extreme for a Level-3 sex offender."<BR><BR>- Dale "Comb-Over" Courtney (August
3, 2005)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>________________________________<BR><BR><BR>From:
</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>[mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] On Behalf Of </FONT><A
href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>heirdoug@netscape.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent:
Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:17 PM<BR>To: </FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject:
[Vision2020] It's not<BR>"cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,<BR><BR><BR><BR>And I quote, ".... course of conduct<BR>constitute an
implied threat."<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Wow J.,<BR><BR><BR><BR>That would have
to be the best example of<BR>point proving since Joan's
"jack-boot-vasectomy-procedure" from many months<BR>past.<BR><BR><BR><BR>There
is nothing like being the poster girl<BR>for the Intoleristas! Is
there.<BR><BR>D.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>I'd tell you go do
yourself, but you'd have<BR>to grow some first. Which isn't<BR>about to
happen this late in the game, now<BR>is it?<BR><BR>The end.<BR><BR>J
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