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<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Well Gary,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>I am sorry that you can not understand the simple
fallacy of a persuasive definition. But that is not unexpected from a
pseudo-libertarian. Just as you try to force your will on others, you try
to force a restrictive definition on others in a context where such a definition
subtends only a small subset that the general definition used by the other
commenter's.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>To support your restrictive persuasive
definition you write:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>"With the courts judgment the answer
to the slander/libel question becomes yes or no. Without, it's purely
subjective."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Somehow in making this absurd statement you
forgot to comment upon the Stambler/Wilson example. And while it is
true that a court may enter a judgment in a defamation trial, that judgment may
be just as subjective as that any issued by the man in the street. Or
haven't you observed a protracted court case peopled by faulty or dishonest
witnesses on both sides? Or has it not struck you that the quality of the
opposing attorneys plays a great part in the outcome of a trial, perhaps in some
trials much more than the opposing claims of facts?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Just so that we can all understand unequivocally
where <STRONG>you</STRONG> stand:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>1. Douglas Stambler claimed
that Douglas Wilson molested young boys. If that claim is false, would
<STRONG>you</STRONG> say the Wilson was slandered?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>2. Is it <STRONG>your</STRONG>
position that slander does not occur unless the matter is (a) tried in court,
(b) decided by a court, and (c) upheld on appeal should an appeal(s) be
filed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Please for the sake of clarity and honesty answer
yes/no to each of the two questions adding any explanatory material you
like. Perhaps, for the edification of the V 2020 readers who are still
interested, you can answer these two simple questions directly without evading
them or trying to change the subject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Feel free to continue commenting on my advanced
age. Should you like to test the relevance of my advanced age I
would be glad to race you from the Bourgeau Lake trail head on the Trans-Canada
to the summit of Bourgeau peak. If you win the race, you will have more to
gloat about my advanced age; if you lose, you can use your usual failure to meet
the issue head on tactics or give some other lame excuse as ways to divert
attention from your failure. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT><FONT face=Verdana
size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><IMG height=238 src="cid:008e01c79125$aec286b0$6401a8c0@LocalHost"
width=278 border=0> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 07, 2007 5:45 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I am well aware of the difference between slander and
libel. I have made the distinction in several previous posts. Since Ms. Lund's
meaning was clear and I considered the post to be informal and "friendly" I
opted to try and avoid coming across as a pedantic blow hole. Different strokes
for different folks, aye?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The definition I used for the term slander was absolutely
valid. I did not say that the term couldn't be used in any other way but rather
that by the definition I used there could be zero question as to whether the
offense occurred or not. Barring the restrictive definition of the term we enter
into the vague world of peoples feelings and personal perceptions, a place where
there is very little likelihood that people with widely divergent world views
and opinions are going to reach consensus. With the courts judgment the answer
to the slander/libel question becomes yes or no. Without, it's purely
subjective. It becomes maybe, perhaps and who knows. Again I'm sure you are well
aware of all this and are simply trying to score points in some sort of contest
that only you are completely up to speed on. I hope you're having a good time.
I'm a little amazed that a throw away post regarding Rose's newest venture has
generated this much traffic. Are you having a difficult time filling the
long, lonely hours of your declining years?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Monday, May 07, 2007 9:23 AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>In the following the word "slander" is used
since it occurred earlier in thread, although the correct term is most likely
"libel" since we are referring to published material on the internet.
The initial and continued use of "slander" for "libel" terms does
not affect the gist of the arguments below.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Gary writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff>"Slander, being a legal term, would be
easy for you to prove to me by showing me the judgment that the court rendered
in your favor."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>There are at least three problems with this
absurd position. Gary has used this ruse before, so maybe I should risk
wasting a little time to expose it, although such exposure will be unlikely to
make even an Angstrom Unit of change in Gary's "<EM>The Art of
Deception</EM>" dialectical habits.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3><STRONG>A.</STRONG> <FONT
face=Arial><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>"Slander, being a legal term..."<FONT
color=#000000> This is a classic example of the Persuasive Definition
Fallacy.</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persuasive_definition</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>"A <B>persuasive definition</B> is a form of <A title=Definition
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition">definition</A> which purports
to describe the 'true' or 'commonly accepted' meaning of a term, while in
reality stipulating an uncommon or altered use, usually to support an argument
for some view, or to create or alter rights, duties or crimes. The terms thus
defined will often involve emotionally charged but imprecise notions, such as
"freedom", "terrorism", "democracy" etc...."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Example: No <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000>true patriot</FONT></STRONG> would ever criticize President Bush
for his decisions with respect to Iraq.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>There are contexts
where slander is used in its legal sense. However, it is quite clear
that Keely was using it in the more general sense:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana color=#0000ff
size=3><STRONG>slander</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top>
<TD class=DEFINITION width=17><B><FONT color=#0000ff>1. </FONT></B></TD>
<TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt"><FONT
color=#0000ff><B>saying of something false and damaging: </B>the act or
offense of saying something false or malicious that damages somebody's
reputation</FONT></TD></TR>
<TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top>
<TD class=DEFINITION width=17><B><FONT color=#0000ff>2. </FONT></B></TD>
<TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt"><FONT
color=#0000ff><B>false and damaging statement: </B>a false and malicious
statement that damages somebody's reputation</FONT></TD></TR>
<P><B><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></B><!--EndFragment--></P></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT color=#0000ff>Microsoft® Encarta® 2007.
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Hence, the clear use
by Gary of a "persuasive definition" of the word "slander."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3><STRONG>B.</STRONG> <FONT color=#0000ff>"</FONT>...<FONT
face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>would be easy for you to prove to me by
showing me the judgment that the court rendered in your favor."
<FONT color=#000000>Even if the meaning of the word "slander" is restricted to
its simple legal meaning:</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>1.
</STRONG><I>Law</I> Oral communication of false statements injurious to a
person's reputation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>the fact that no court
judgment has been issued, does not mean that slander in its legal sense has
not occurred. Almost all instances of slander in its
legal sense never see the any judicial proceeding for a large variety of
reasons. Even in its legal sense, the question of whether slander
occurred is more complicated. For example, even if false and damaging
statements are made, they may not rise to the level of legal slander, although
they would certainly meet the criteria of the word "slander" used in its
general sense above.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3><STRONG>A/B.
</STRONG>An example illustrating the above:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>In a Vision 2020 Post,
Douglas Stambler alleged that Douglas Wilson, so-called pastor of Christ
Church, sexually molested young boys. If this allegation is false,
then did Stambler slander Wilson?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Since, there has been
no judicial proceeding on this matter (reader's are left to speculate why),
there has been no court judgment issued. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Under Gary's view,
then even if the allegation is false, Wilson has not been slandered.
Reader's can be the judge, but I would guess that if the Stambler's allegation
is false, I think most of us would agree that Wilson was slandered.
Perhaps Gary can ask Wilson if he thought that he was slandered by Stambler's
remarks the next time Wilson visits The Lock Shop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3><STRONG>C.</STRONG> The use of the persuasive definition of
"slander" and its attendant fallacy by Gary is so clear that for most reader's
my above notes are hardly necessary. But one is left to speculate why
Gary would make such absurd statements.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Is it
because:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3>1. Gary is such a fool, that he cannot see the
absurdity of his statements?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3> or</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3>2. Gary knows he is running a ruse? In that
case we are left to conclude he is a phony and a liar, and not to be taken as
a serious, honest defender of various viewpoints.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3>One could
continue to analyze the rest of Gary's response to Keely with its several
fallacies, some of them linguistic, but little would be gained for the time
investment required.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>When it comes to
political or ideological viewpoints, there has yet to be developed a method to
separate the true from the false (if that is even possible). Such things
are always subject to debate at this point, but sometimes progress toward
mutual agreement is made. Misleading ruses, absurdities, evasions,
etc obscure and stifle rather than forward progress toward agreement
in these areas. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Perhaps Gary could
make himself a much better defender of his viewpoints (or might possibly,
though very improbably, change them a little) if he were to take a well
designed logic (not rhetoric) course.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=Verdana size=3>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box
9421<BR>Moscow, ID 83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">(208) 882-7975<BR><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT><FONT
face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana><FONT size=3><FONT
size=+0></FONT></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> ; <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 05, 2007 2:17 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you
harass someone,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Keely, the remarks I made with regard to Rose's blog
were quoted verbatim from mail that she sent to me on the subject. I took no
editorial license, just straight from the horses mouth. (note the quotation
marks)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Slander, being a legal term, would be easy for you to
prove to me by showing me the judgment that the court rendered in your favor.
Baring that its just a disagreement concerning the facts. Snide and nasty are
in the eye of the beholder. Being mocked is something big girls simply deal
with. If you're going to have an opinion and attempt to inflict it on the
world you can expect for people to take exception. Are you trying to get me
and the rest of the fine folks here on the V to believe that you have never
displayed any of the qualities that you accuse Dale of? Never been a little
snarky, a little mean? Never fudged the facts to present your position in its
most favorable light? Don't even bother to answer, I'm sure we all know.
You're human, despite your attempts to have us believe otherwise.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@adelphia.net
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A> ; <A title=deco@moscow.com
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, May 05, 2007 12:39
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ummm, hey? Gary? Rose's blog says she allows
comments. Just not bigoted ones. She gets to
decide.<BR><BR>Also, while we're on topic here, I can assure you, as someone
slandered and mocked by Dale Courtney quite regularly over the last four
years, his is not about news with a modicum of commentary. It's just
nasty and snide, with a modicum of respect for actual
facts.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: <A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">jampot@adelphia.net</A><BR>To:
<A href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>; <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Date:
Sat, 5 May 2007 10:29:30 -0700<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,<BR><BR>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>My goodness, Wayne all those years of bottled
up spleen are certainly making themselves apparent in today's posting
aren't they? (what is it now, 101? You don't look a day over 98 but you
are a testament to the notion that old and grumpy do go hand in hand) Lets
address your little hissy fit in the order that you excreted
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You take me to task for the
sentence:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT color=#0000ff>"Apparently it's more fun
to simply broadcast your irrefutable wisdom to the world and not have to
deal with the unpleasantness of actual debate."</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Mr. Courtney's blog is a news/items of
interest site with a modicum of commentary tossed in on the side. Not
screeds and lengthy personnel political rants. A greatly appreciated
aspect to his using this format is that items of interest to him are
not directed to and clogging up the greater groups inbox unlike certain
others who shall remain nameless.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>In my memory of Dale's posts to the V he did
a fine job of expressing and defending his view points, as did Rose. The
difference was that Dale was the lone mongoose in the viper pit and Rose
sang with the choir. I perfectly understand how being the minority
voice can become tiresome and, eventually, not worth the effort. In
conversations I have had with Dale I have done my best, sorry as it is, to
convince and encourage him to rejoin the fray. Lord knows I would
enjoy an additional conservative voice here to help sing the
counterpoint to the rest of ya'lls dreary dirge. Do I have "distain and
censure" for Rose and her new endeavor? Not hardly, I'm not wild about the
fact that it doesn't allow for comments (as Dale's does) but I have been
assured that this is but a temporary thing and will change "soon." I have
been informed that comments must fall within "appropriate parameters" and
this IS a type of censorship I'm not particularly fond of. I truly
fail to see how anything I have posted might be construed as being in
favor of limiting anyone's free expression. You seem to be laboring under
the erroneous and fatuous assumption that Rose and I are enemies
of some sort. Nothing could be further from the truth. We get on rather
well, all things considered and I wish her nothing but the best in
her latest whimsy and I hope that it doesn't suffer the same
ignoble fate that lil' Joannie's did.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Whether I have "exhibited yourself for all to
see as a phony" is for others to decide. What I have been trying to
express is my contention that more light (and heat) is shed in an
unmediated, unrestrained setting and that it's the venue that I,
personally prefer (even if it means having to endure silly fonts
& unrestrained use of color) for hashing out the topics de jour
as opposed to having to listen (read) someone hold forth ad
nauseum.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now hows about you have yourself a nice
little nap and try and get a little more fiber in your diet and see if
your cranky and constipated outlook don't take a remarkable turn for the
better. At your advanced age you shouldn't get so agitated.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A>
</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, May 04, 2007 10:57 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Well, Gary,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am surprised that you have the stupidity to mention and to
champion Dale Courtney's web-blots so soon after you wrote the following
about Rose Huskey and others:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"Apparently it's more fun to simply broadcast
your irrefutable wisdom to the world and not have to deal with the
unpleasantness of actual debate."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Are you too busy playing with your keys to see that Courtney runs
his own web-blots in part because he was not able to effectively defend
his positions on V 2020, and so that he may remove comments that he
doesn't like, or remove comments that point out where he either
misquotes, quotes out of context, or quotes incompletely to give the
wrong impression. It's all right for Dale Courtney, but not for
Rose Huskey?</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Further, you pretended a few days ago to be staunchly
anti-censorship and a true defender of freedom of speech <FONT
color=#0000ff>"Censorship sucks"</FONT> were your words. Now you
express disdain and censure for those who dare, like your hero
Courtney, to express themselves in a blog - a decidedly
anti-free-expression position on your part.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You sir, have just exhibited yourself for all to see as a phony,
whose writings express a desire to control what others say and do almost
as much as do the cultmaster's!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box 9421<BR>Moscow,
ID 83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(208) 882-7975<BR><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g.
crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=thansen@moscow.com
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom Hansen</A> ; <A
title=heirdoug@netscape.net
href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net">heirdoug@netscape.net</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 04, 2007 7:28 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless
you harass someone,</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I know I'm probably going to regret this
but my curiosity is hopelessly piqued. Just exactly what action did you
take that would serve as a shining example for others to emulate? Is it
the thinly veiled vulgarities in your post? Is it maintaining a hate web
site against a small local protestant congregation? Is it endlessly
posting of news tidbits that you think should be of interest to others?
Is it your tireless and constant monitoring of Dale Courtney's web
site? I'd really like to know what it is so I could thank you properly
for your ongoing good works. (once their identified)</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>From:</B>
<A title=thansen@moscow.com href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">Tom
Hansen</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=heirdoug@netscape.net
href="mailto:heirdoug@netscape.net">heirdoug@netscape.net</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, May 04, 2007 5:44 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] It's not "cyberstalking" unless you harass
someone,</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV class=EC_Section1>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">No-Clue
–</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">You keep
submitting gutless threats. Is that all there is to you?
My guess is “Yes”.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I am going to
repeat a comment I made to you a long time ago:</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">“SH*T OR GET
THE HELL OFF THE POT!”</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Loosely
translated that means: Be a FRIGGIN’ man for once in your
spineless, ignorantly childish life! Crawl out from under that
rock of yours and DO SOMETHING. Either take action or SHUT the
EFF UP!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">I have set an
example for you to follow when I took action in the past (and will
continue to do so in the future).</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Jeesh!</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tom
Hansen</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Moscow</SPAN></FONT><FONT
face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">,
Idaho</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=navy
size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy">“Uh, how about a
1-strike law. Death doesn't seem too extreme for a Level-3 sex
offender.”<BR><BR>- Dale “Comb-Over” Courtney (August 3,
2005)<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT
face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]
<B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">On Behalf Of
</SPAN></B>heirdoug@netscape.net<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:17
PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B>
vision2020@moscow.com<BR><B><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> [Vision2020] It's not
"cyberstalking" unless you harass someone,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">And I quote, ".... course of conduct
constitute an implied threat."</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Wow J.,</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">That would have to be the best example of
point proving since <SPAN class=EC_correction><SPAN
id=EC_>Joan's</SPAN></SPAN> "jack-boot-vasectomy-<SPAN
class=EC_correction><SPAN id=EC_>procedure"</SPAN></SPAN> from many
months past.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">There is nothing like being the poster girl
for the Intoleristas! Is there.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">D.</SPAN></FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P></DIV><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">I'd tell you go do yourself, but you'd have to grow some first. Which isn't </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">about to happen this late in the game, now is it?</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">The end.</SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt"> </SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">J :]</SPAN></FONT></PRE>
<DIV>
<DIV class=EC_MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">
<HR align=center width="100%" SIZE=2>
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<P class=EC_MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A
href="http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1081283466x1074645346/aol?redir=http://www.aim.com/fun/mail/"
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