<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
<head>
<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=us-ascii">
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)">
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style>
<![endif]--><o:SmartTagType
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" name="Street"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PostalCode"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PlaceName"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PlaceType"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="State"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="address"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="City"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="place"/>
<o:SmartTagType namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"
name="PersonName"/>
<!--[if !mso]>
<style>
st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
</style>
<![endif]-->
<style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-margin-top-alt:auto;
margin-right:0in;
mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
margin-left:0in;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman";}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
font-family:Arial;
color:navy;}
@page Section1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;}
div.Section1
{page:Section1;}
-->
</style>
</head>
<body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=blue>
<div class=Section1>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Well, <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Arnold</st1:place></st1:City>, if you are going to combine the rent
payments, you might as well combine the living space (of the HOUSE), as well.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>That would amount to a 5 bedroom, 3 bath
HOUSE for $1,500 per month.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Question, Arnold: What are the going rent
rates for a comparable house?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Tom “living in a 2-bedroom, 1-bath,
$500 a month apartment” Hansen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font size=2
color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;
color:navy'>Moscow</span></font></st1:City><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>, <st1:State
w:st="on">Idaho</st1:State></span></font></st1:place><font size=2 color=navy
face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font size=2 color=navy face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
color:navy'>“Anyone that buys something at Wal-Mart or Target expecting
it to last doesn't know how to spend money.”<br>
<br>
- Donovan Arnold (October 3, 2006)</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=2 width="100%" align=center tabindex=-1>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><font size=2 face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font size=2
face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> vision2020-bounces@moscow.com
[mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com] <b><span style='font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Donovan Arnold<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, May 01, 2007 2:29
PM<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Nick
Gier</st1:PersonName><br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> vision2020@moscow.com<br>
<b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [Vision2020] Correct
Rent for my House</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>As I understand it, $600 a month for part of the house, $750 for the
other half of the house is $1350 a month. Is my math off?<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Count in w,s,g, utilities, and it is easily over $1500 a
month for a house rental. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>A couple with a child or two going to college cannot afford $1500 a
month. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>When everyone, including you, divides their homes up into apartments to
raise the rental value of a home to $1500 a month, you make it impossible for
single families to rent an entire home.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>You have to rent to 4 to 8 people because it is not
affordable for a one income family. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>In order for $750 a month to be affordable, that would be $9,000 a
year. Someone would have to net $30,000 a year in order for that to be only 30%
of their income. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>No statistics in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City> support
the claim that the average college student with children does not make
$30,000 a year after taxes. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The math is pretty concrete. $750 a month is NOT affordable housing for
a family in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City>.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Want more math. If a college student works 25 hrs a week at $10 an
hour. That is about $1000 a month net income. They get the maximum of $12,000
in loans, grants, and scholarships. That is still only $24,000 a year,
assuming no missed work and they can find a job for twice the minimum wage.
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Moscow</span></font></st1:place></st1:City>
has no affordable housing for college family units. Dividing housing to
maximize rental income is the main reason why.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Donovan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><br>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on"><b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Nick
Gier</span></i></b></st1:PersonName><b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'> <ngier@uidaho.edu></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Dear Donovan,<br>
<br>
You are not remembering my rent figures very well. Families who have
rented my 3-bedroom upstairs have found the $750 rent very reasonable, and
students who have 3 bedrooms and 2 baths downstairs for $600 believe that they
have died and gone to heaven.<br>
<br>
By the way, the upstairs will be available for Fall semester and the downstairs
will be available July 1. Please spread the word and give anyone
interested my e-mail address.<br>
<br>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on">Nick Gier</st1:PersonName><br>
<br>
At 09:33 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Nick,<br>
<br>
I didn't attack your house. I was disagreeing with you charging $1500 to rent a
house in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City>.
In order for that to be considered affordable housing a family would have to
make $4,500 a month in net income. Those types of jobs are just not available
in <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Moscow</st1:place></st1:City>. Nor
does a person get that much money in students loans, grants and scholarships.<br>
<br>
What you seem to not comprehend is that when you make rent prices so outrageous
you make life very difficult, if not impossible for couples with children that
would like to get out of poverty by getting a degree at UI. <br>
<br>
Sure, $1500 is affordable for 5 or 6 college students. But single families have
to pay that same market rate. This was my biggest challenge as a student body
senator, was trying to find adequate low income housing for single families. It
doesn't exist. The UI family housing is full, and the buildings are falling
apart, not entirely safe, and have mold and health issues. <br>
<br>
That was my point, and why I am angry about the situation. It is completely
unfair.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Donovan<br>
<br>
<st1:PersonName w:st="on"><b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Nick
Gier</span></i></b></st1:PersonName><b><i><span style='font-weight:bold;
font-style:italic'> <ngier@uidaho.edu></span></i></b> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>Good Morning Visionaries:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I'm just as fed with Donovan's tirades as anyone on
this list. (My favorite attack was the one on my house. I can
defend myself, but house cannot.) Objecting to his insults and bad
manners is one thing, but diagnosing his mental state complete with labels is
another thing, even if he has given his own diagnosis.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span
style='font-size:12.0pt'>I would very much like this thread to cease
immediately.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><st1:PersonName w:st="on"><font
size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Nick Gier</span></font></st1:PersonName><o:p></o:p></p>
<div></X-SIGSEP>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
10.0pt'><X-SIGSEP>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the
application of it to human affairs."<br>
--Ralph Waldo Emerson<br>
<br>
"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who
represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."<br>
--Mohandas Gandhi<br>
<br>
"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be
discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by
itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life.
It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The
whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Ma</span></font><font
size=1><span style='font-size:7.5pt'>x Planck<br>
<br>
</span></font>Nicholas F. Gier<br>
Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">University</st1:PlaceType> of <st1:PlaceName w:st="on">Idaho</st1:PlaceName></st1:place><br>
<st1:address w:st="on"><st1:Street w:st="on">1037 Colt Rd.</st1:Street>, <st1:City
w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">ID</st1:State> <st1:PostalCode
w:st="on">83843</st1:PostalCode></st1:address><br>
<a href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm" eudora=autourl>http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm<br>
</a>208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950<br>
President, <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Idaho</st1:place></st1:State>
Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<br>
<a href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm" eudora=autourl>http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm<br>
<br>
</a>=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
http://www.fsr.net <br>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><font size=3
face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></font></div>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?<br>
Check out <a
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http:/autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-">new
cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>