<DIV>Paul,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I fully support Nick's right to gouge his renters for every penny for his own personal gain. If Nick and other landlords own their property, they can charge whatever the market will bear. But that was not the issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The argument is asking if he charges an affordable rate for his housing units. The math says the answer is no. So for Nick to claim he is providing affordable housing, is an incorrect statement. He is charging what the market will bear in a market where the demand for housing greatly exceeds the supply.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"If the price was too high, no one would pay." I disagree, people do pay rents that are too high, they have to, or go without shelter. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan<BR><BR><B><I>Paul Rumelhart <godshatter@yahoo.com></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">Isn't this a perfect example of the "free market" I've seen you support in previous postings, though? Nick charges what he indicates his renters find to be a reasonable amount. If the price was too high, no one would pay. Should Nick reasonably take a hit on his profit because some single income families want to rent an entire house instead of just half of one?<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>Donovan Arnold wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid325522.13126.qm@web38113.mail.mud.yahoo.com type="cite"> <DIV>Nick,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I understand it, $600 a month for part of the house, $750 for the other half of the house is $1350 a month. Is my math off?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Count in w,s,g, utilities, and it is easily over $1500 a month for a house rental. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A couple with a child or two going to college cannot afford $1500 a month. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When everyone, including you, divides their homes up into apartments to raise the rental value of a home to $1500 a month, you make it impossible for single families to rent an entire home.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You have to rent to 4 to 8 people because it is not affordable for a one income family. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In order for $750 a month to be affordable, that would be $9,000 a year. Someone would have to net $30,000 a year in order for that to be only 30% of their income. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No statistics in Moscow support the claim that the average college student with children does not make $30,000 a year after taxes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The math is pretty concrete. $750 a month is NOT affordable housing for a family in Moscow. </DIV> <DIV>Want more math. If a college student works 25 hrs a week at $10 an hour. That is about $1000 a month net income. They get the
maximum of $12,000 in loans, grants, and scholarships. That is still only $24,000 a year, assuming no missed work and they can find a job for twice the minimum wage. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Moscow has no affordable housing for college family units. Dividing housing to maximize rental income is the main reason why.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Best,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Donovan</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR><B><I>Nick Gier <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu"><ngier@uidaho.edu></A></I></B> wrote:</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">Dear Donovan,<BR><BR>You are not remembering my rent figures very well. Families who have rented my 3-bedroom upstairs have found the $750 rent very reasonable, and students who have 3 bedrooms and 2 baths downstairs for $600 believe that they have died and gone to
heaven.<BR><BR>By the way, the upstairs will be available for Fall semester and the downstairs will be available July 1. Please spread the word and give anyone interested my e-mail address.<BR><BR>Nick Gier<BR><BR>At 09:33 AM 5/1/2007, you wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">Nick,<BR> <BR>I didn't attack your house. I was disagreeing with you charging $1500 to rent a house in Moscow. In order for that to be considered affordable housing a family would have to make $4,500 a month in net income. Those types of jobs are just not available in Moscow. Nor does a person get that much money in students loans, grants and scholarships.<BR> <BR>What you seem to not comprehend is that when you make rent prices so outrageous you make life very difficult, if not impossible for couples with children that would like to get out of poverty by getting a degree at UI. <BR> <BR>Sure, $1500 is affordable for 5 or 6 college students. But single families
have to pay that same market rate. This was my biggest challenge as a student body senator, was trying to find adequate low income housing for single families. It doesn't exist. The UI family housing is full, and the buildings are falling apart, not entirely safe, and have mold and health issues. <BR> <BR>That was my point, and why I am angry about the situation. It is completely unfair.<BR> <BR>Best,<BR> <BR>Donovan<BR><BR><B><I>Nick Gier <A class=moz-txt-link-rfc2396E href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu"><ngier@uidaho.edu></A></I></B> wrote:<BR> <DL> <DD>Good Morning Visionaries:<BR><BR></DD> <DD>I'm just as fed with Donovan's tirades as anyone on this list. (My favorite attack was the one on my house. I can defend myself, but house cannot.) Objecting to his insults and bad manners is one thing, but diagnosing his mental state complete with labels is another thing, even if he has given his own diagnosis.<BR><BR></DD> <DD>I would very
much like this thread to cease immediately.<BR><BR></DD> <DD>Nick Gier<BR></DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE><X-SIGSEP></X-SIGSEP> <DIV><FONT size=2>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to human affairs."<BR>--Ralph Waldo Emerson<BR><BR>"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."<BR> --Mohandas Gandhi<BR><BR>"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Ma</FONT><FONT size=1>x Planck<BR><BR></FONT>Nicholas F. Gier<BR>Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of
Idaho<BR>1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843<BR><A href="http://users.adelphia.net/%7Enickgier/home.htm" eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm<BR></A>208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950<BR>President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<BR><A href="http://users.adelphia.net/%7Enickgier/ift.htm" eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm<BR><BR></A>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</A> <BR><A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>=======================================================</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV></DIV> <HR SIZE=1> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?<BR>Check out <A
href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-">new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</A> <PRE wrap=""><HR width="90%" SIZE=4> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.fsr.net/">http://www.fsr.net</A> <A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A> =======================================================</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>=======================================================<BR>List services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net
<BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</BLOCKQUOTE><BR><p> 
<hr size=1>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?<br> Check out
<a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-">new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a>