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I don't expect him to respond to what is basically a loyalty oath
either, nor do I think he ought to feel obliged to.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Tom Hansen wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid005501c78a5f$3b768de0$631aa8c0@D5L3R191"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Mr.
Rumelhart –<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">As I have
stated before, Sunil has NEVER
degraded this country of ours (and his). In fact, if you were to
search Sunil’s
postings, you would find several instances about his fond memories of
undergraduate
days in <st1:State w:st="on">California</st1:State>, along with some
personal
(and extremely favorable) reflections of his concerning <st1:State
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Idaho</st1:place></st1:State>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">That said.
I seriously don’t
see any reason for Sunil to respond to the ignorant whims of a <st1:PersonName
w:st="on">Vision 2020</st1:PersonName> subscriber simply to satisfy
that
subscriber’s anxiety.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Tom Hansen<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on"><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">Moscow</span></font></st1:City><font
color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;">, <st1:State
w:st="on">Idaho</st1:State></span></font></st1:place><font color="navy"
face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial; color: navy;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;">"I
think if you are going to attack someone in public, you need to at
least be
willing to meet with them in public in a debate or discussion format,
otherwise
you will rightfully earn the term of a yellow-belly."<br>
<br>
- Donovan Arnold (October 4, 2006) <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; color: windowtext;">
<hr tabindex="-1" align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><font color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext; font-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font
color="black" face="Tahoma" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma; color: windowtext;">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com">mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b><span
style="font-weight: bold;">On
Behalf Of </span></b>Paul Rumelhart<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sunday, April
29, 2007 1:00
AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re:
[Vision2020] Army
Officer Accuses His Generals of <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place
w:st="on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Failures</span></font><font color="black"><span
style="color: windowtext;"><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I would be quite surprised to
learn that Sunil doesn't
love our country. However, I don't know him so how am I to refute
that? Sunil is more than capable of defending himself if he chooses
to. I am impressed by him, based upon everything I've read here.<br>
<br>
At the end, it boiled down to Donovan wishing that Sunil came out and
said more
positive things about our country. That was a compromise that seemed
to
me to be "fair enough". I'm not defending anything else that
was said in the exchange.<br>
<br>
Why should I bother being conciliatory or irenic if I don't recognize
honest
attempts to reach middle ground?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
P.S. I thought you had made a typo with "irenic" and meant
"ironic". I was trying to figure that one out until I looked it
up and found it was a word and that it meant "operating toward peace,
moderation, or conciliation". I've never come across that word
before.<br>
<br>
keely emerinemix wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Here's
the thing,
Paul. I do know the guy, and you're not likely to meet too many people
with more integrity than Sunil. <br>
<br>
I've admired your conciliatory and irenic tone in the past, but there's
nothing
"fair enough" about anything Donovan has said in this or any other
exchange. I'm not qualified to judge what he does deserve, but one
thing Donovan doesn't deserve is the benefit of the doubt, and I would
suggest
that Sunil has more than proved, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that he is
a fine
and decent man who loves his country.<br>
<br>
keely<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007
22:15:30 -0700<br>
From: <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">godshatter@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Army Officer Accuses His Generals of <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Failures<br>
<br>
Fair enough. <br>
<br>
I'd think that the fact that he is doing what he can to change what he
doesn't
like is evidence enough that he appreciates this country. But I don't
know the guy, so I have no way of knowing if that's true or not.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I agree with most of what you
said. But I believe
there is a difference between a citizen genuinely making a constructive
criticism and someone just out to point out flaws in our government and
divide
people. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I don't disagree with Sunil's
arguments against Bush
and our country, I just disagree with his motives and dangerous
solutions to
problems. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">A guy that does nothing but
attack the character
of our country, its uniformed members, and never praising it,
ever, raises concerns for me. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I'm saying, it sure would be
nice if Sunil could say
something nice about the country instead of bashing it and supporting
its
enemy's agenda 100% of the time. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Donovan<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Paul
Rumelhart <a href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a></span></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">An attempt to put this in
perspective.<br>
<br>
The <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States
of America</st1:place></st1:country-region>
differs from some other countries in that it is a government of the
people, by
the people, and for the people. Our President, along with all other
elected officials, is an ordinary citizen who is supposedly carrying a
burden
in a self-less act of devotion to the rest of us. He is not royal, he
is
not a deity, and he is not of an official upper class. He works for
us. He does not have the license to tell us what is "patriotic"
and what is not. What he says about it is not Royal Decree, religious
dogma, nor law. It is the opinion of a fellow citizen that
coincidentally
happens to bring him more personal power if you agree with him.<br>
<br>
Thus, it makes sense to keep an eye on him and to make sure that he is
doing
what *we* want him to do, not what *he* wants to do. If he is doing
something that goes against what the people voted him in to do, then
they are
obligated to do something about it. To do otherwise would be to turn
your
back on the idea of a representational government. One way of "doing
something" about it is to make your concerns known publicly. Sunil,
and others like him, should be commended for not allowing our
representative to
work against our wishes. <br>
<br>
Our President is not representing me when he decides that we can be
allowed to
use torture in our daily conduct as a nation, merely because he can
argue some
loopholes in the <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Geneva</st1:place></st1:City>
conventions. Thus, I make this known. He is not representing me
when he decides that he can spy on our private communications without
legal
warrants, especially when he arrogantly ignores the process already in
place
that is not onerous to get those warrants. Thus, I make this known as
well. He is not representing me when he orders secret camps in other
countries to be built to take our prisoners to when he wants them
tortured
without benefit of public scrutiny, nor when he uses "extraordinary
rendition" to send suspects to other countries where he knows they will
be
tortured. He is not representing me when he uses "signing
statements" to change laws he doesn't like into laws he does like.
He is not representing me when he bull-headedly sticks to his Iraq
strategy
when it is clear that he doesn't have popular support for it,
especially
knowing that he got us into this war with bad arguments made from bad
data that
he knew was not true when he used that data to manipulate us into
backing him
in this war. <br>
<br>
To remain silent is to betray your fellow citizens in the
representative
democracy that we live in. To "attack our country" by stating
our opinions and declaring "NO!" when we need to IS patriotism.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote: <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Reverend Keely,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">For the 409382th time, I
already told you, I am
autistic, I don't have a real sense of embarrassment. Why that doesn't
stick in your head seems to escape me, other than you listen with
emotions
and feelings rather than intelligent rational thought. Perhaps not
having rational thought is your disability. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">But, obviously having a sense
of embarrassment doesn't
keep you from saying stupid, cruel, arrogant, ignorant, and I guess
embarrassing things either does it. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I don't question Sunil's
patriotism, I just question
which country he places that patriotism in. He attacks our country
regularly, he never says anything pleasant about it. He defends the
Taliban,
even those that attacked our troops. And now he is blaming our men and
women in
uniform for the failures in Iraqi that have done their job to the best
of their
ability and very heroically too, might I add. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Sunil has taken great steps
and carefully worded
everything he has said to cover the fact that he has a strong disdain
for the <st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United
States</st1:place></st1:country-region>,
and avoided every opportunity to cast doubt on that by me and others.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">He has every right to hate the
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States</st1:place></st1:country-region>
if he wants to. Many people do. I just think he should be honest about
it when
he criticizes this country so that we can see it in the proper context.
Right
now, I view Sunil's words as words of a foreigner expressing his
opinion of the
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States</st1:place></st1:country-region>.
I cannot view him as a patriot questioning the policies of his
country, until he gives me reason or tells me otherwise. He has not
done so, and purposefully avoids doing so.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">But once again Reverend Keely,
I appreciate your moral
advise, for thou art holier than thee and all others. No doubt, in the
end, the pitch fork in your arse will be not be as hot or sharp as the
rest of ours. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Best,<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Donovan <br>
<br>
<b><i><span style="font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">keely
emerinemix <a href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com"><kjajmix1@msn.com></a></span></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">At what point, Donovan, might
it be said that you've
embarrassed yourself quite enough? Is there a time that your brain and
your keyboard will stop their collusion in making you appear as you
do? <br>
<br>
I've met you. You're not that bad in person, and you undoubtedly have
a
lot of good traits. In fact, I found you quite pleasant. But for
your own sake, as well as for the cause of civil discord, would you
please
reexamine whatever it is about email that turns you into such a
badgering and
bellicose pest?<br>
<br>
And please remember that I'm not ordained; "Reverend Keely" is far
more than I'm entitled to. <br>
<br>
keely<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007
12:55:03 -0700<br>
From: <a href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</a>;
<a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Army Officer Accuses His Generals of <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region>
Failures<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Sunil,</span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">You wrote:</span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">"Poor Donovan, wants to be <st1:City
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Eugene</st1:place></st1:City> and ends
up being Joseph."<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Clearly,
I am
neither. If I was McCarthy you would praising me for my
destruction of good leaders. If I were Joseph you would be at my feet. </span></font></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">Don't blame others for not
telling
the truth when it cannot be uttered from your own lips. </span></font></i></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">You have great courtroom
tactics,
Sunil. But I assure you, you have answered the question for those of us
that
wanted to know. </span></font></i></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">Best,</span></font></i></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><em><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold;">Donovan</span></font></i></b></em><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt; font-weight: bold; font-style: italic;">Sunil
Ramalingam <a href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com></a></span></font></i></b>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-left: 3.75pt; margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class="MsoNormal"><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">Moscow</span></font></st1:place></st1:City>'s
McCarthy continues to display his love of freedom by imposing <br>
loyalty tests.<br>
<br>
Poor Donovan, wants to be <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Eugene</st1:place></st1:City>
and ends up being Joseph.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<br>
>From: Donovan Arnold <br>
>To: Sunil Ramalingam , <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Army Officer Accuses His Generals of <st1:country-region
w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region> <br>
>Failures<br>
>Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 11:32:36 -0700 (PDT)<br>
><br>
>Sunil,<br>
><br>
> You wrote:<br>
><br>
> "Bush has said that the military has been sent all the troops they
<br>
>requested.<br>
>Why didn't the generals request more troops from the beginning? Why
didn't<br>
>they admit how poorly things were going and put it back in the lap
of the<br>
>administration?"<br>
><br>
><br>
> First, the Generals did ask for more troops and did give honest <br>
>appraisals of the situation, they just did not publish that
information for
<br>
>you and the enemy to see in the Washington Post and New York Times.<br>
><br>
> Second, there were no more troops to be had.<br>
><br>
> Third, more troops wouldn't solve the problem, it would just make
the <br>
>problem larger. The problem was the political objective, not
military <br>
>incompetence. They have guns not magic wands. This was Bush's
blunder, not <br>
>the officers, soldiers, or generals over there.<br>
><br>
> Fourth, it is UNACCEPTABLE for an officer to be going to the AP
and <br>
>personally attack his commanding officers. There are proper ways of
going <br>
>about filing a complaint about a misbehaving or incompetent
commanding <br>
>officer. What this guy did was wrong and dangerous.<br>
><br>
> Finally, we are still waiting for you to say, "I love my country,
the
<br>
><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">United States of
America</st1:place></st1:country-region>."<br>
><br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
><br>
> Donovan<br>
><br>
>Sunil Ramalingam wrote:<br>
> Donovan,<br>
><br>
>On the one hand I don't disagree that the administration 'screwed
this war<br>
>up;' having said that, I think wars like this are always going to
end in<br>
>failure. But since the war began, up until he announced the
'surge,' Bush<br>
>has said that the military has been sent all the troops they
requested.<br>
>Why didn't the generals request more troops from the beginning? Why
didn't<br>
>they admit how poorly things were going and put it back in the lap
of the<br>
>administration?<br>
><br>
>It seems to me that generals saw the treatment Gen. Shinseki
received after<br>
>saying that four to five hundred thousand troops would be needed
for the<br>
>war, and they didn't want the same treatment for themselves. That's
their<br>
>fault, isn't it?<br>
><br>
>Sunil<br>
><br>
> >From: Donovan Arnold<br>
> >To: Tom Hansen , <a href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com">thansen@moscow.com</a>,<br>
> ><a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
> >Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Army Officer Accuses His Generals of
<st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Iraq</st1:place></st1:country-region><br>
> >Failures<br>
> >Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 10:38:06 -0700 (PDT)<br>
> ><br>
> >Complaining is one thing. But going to the media and to
undermine the<br>
> >command structure of the military during an actual military
action is
not <br>
>a<br>
> >right.<br>
> ><br>
> > And I don't believe him anyway. I think it is the
administration's
fault<br>
> >for screwing this war up, not the generals.<br>
> ><br>
> > Best,<br>
> ><br>
> >Donovan<br>
> ><br>
><br>
><br>
>=======================================================<br>
>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
><a href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>
><a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>=======================================================<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>---------------------------------<br>
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=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
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<br>
<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
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target="_blank">new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
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=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
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target="_blank">new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<pre style="text-align: center;"><font color="black"
face="Courier New" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">
<hr align="center" size="4" width="90%">
</span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> ======================================================= List services made available by First Step Internet, serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <a
href="http://www.fsr.net/" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a> <a
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<pre><font color="black" face="Courier New" size="2"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;"> =======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></font></pre>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br>
<a href="http://www.fsr.net" target="_blank">http://www.fsr.net</a>
<br>
<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
=======================================================<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><font color="black"
face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></font></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Ahhh...imagining that
irresistible "new car"
smell?<br>
Check out <a
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target="_blank">new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font
color="black" face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span
style="font-size: 12pt;">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><font color="black" face="Times New Roman"
size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
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