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<DIV><FONT face=Arial>And thank YOU Keely.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>-Tony</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A>
</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=tonytime@clearwire.net
href="mailto:tonytime@clearwire.net">Tony</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:37
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [Vision2020] Keely chomps
and foams</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Thanks for your comments, Tony.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: <A
href="mailto:tonytime@clearwire.net">tonytime@clearwire.net</A><BR>To: <A
href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">kjajmix1@msn.com</A><BR>CC: <A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Keely chomps and foams<BR>Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2007 16:24:40
-0700<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Walter got a nasty smackdown from me, Keely, because
he took the first shot, and anonymously at that. I am under no
obligation to allow others to assault me without defending myself. You
defend yourself whenever someone questions your judgment, why am I wrong for
doing precisely the same thing?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Fascinating!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The bottom line Keely, is that you agree with Mr.
Timid's political positions and disagree with mine. Won't you do us
all a favor and dispense with this notion that it is my invective which has
you upset, and be honest: there is plenty of invective on both sides on this
list and that is not what has your panties in a twist. What you find
unacceptable is that I would DARE to disagree with you, and that I do so
persuasively. Face the fact that you smug leftists no longer have a
stranglehold on this forum. The diversity that you so often claim to
value, has come aboard, and you are in a snit because you view yourself as a
member of the anointed, and anyone with the temerity to challenge you as
just another hopelessly benighted rube.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>What would Jesus do, Keely? He'd tell you
to pipe down and consider the possibility that you don't have all
the answers. That perhaps you should encourage a diversity of views
instead of smugly dismissing those with whom you disagree.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>What a phony Christian you are. You profess to
follow Christ while condemning someone who disagrees with you as a
chomping, foaming, hysterical chunk of cat shit. Judge not, unless you
are the great Keely, in which case, heap on the scorn.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Look Caligula, it is not me who espouses filth and
hatred to be challenged. It is you who advocate for a woman's "right"
to kill her children. I stand up for their right to live. Which
side is more compassionate you barbarian? I stand against those who
would blow woman and children to pieces with glazed-eyed glee. You
defend these RAGHEAD murderers at every turn. It is therefore you,
miss phony Christian, who enables and promotes hate, not me.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Keeely, this morally superior posture you effect is
really nauseating. Thomas Sowell was right about you controlling
leftists. You really do feel you are superior to the masses and
obligated to correct their inferior reasoning at every turn. You are
quite simply a tyrant, but one with no power. An aspiring dictator
without the power to subjugate anyone. You will live out the balance
of your ineffectual little life without the satisfaction of tyrannizing
anyone. Nor will you enjoy the license to blather on in defense of
terrorists and baby killers without opposition.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>It's called the first amendment sister.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Deal with it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>-Tony</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=tonytime@clearwire.net
href="mailto:tonytime@clearwire.net">Tony</A> ; <A
title=don.nergal@gmail.com href="mailto:don.nergal@gmail.com">Walter
Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Cc:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, April 16, 2007 5:20 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
RE: [Vision2020] Parting shots, fired high</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Gee, and I was going to write to "walter" to thank him for
at least giving us a shot. Now the tone of my letter changes; I find
that I'm once again having to acknowledge, with sorrow, the existence of
such a vitriol-spewing fellow correspondent as Tony.<BR><BR>On behalf of
the overwhelmingly kind, gracious members of the Vision 2020, I'm sorry
that your brief engagement resulted in the nasty smackdown you got from a
true master of vituperation. For what it's worth, I hope you
reconsider ending your active involvement on the list. I'm very
glad you read Vision 2020 and I appreciate your thoughtful comments below
and in your previous posts. Yours is a perspective we could all
benefit from, and while I wish you felt you could post under your real
name, I respect that you choose not to. <BR><BR>I choose to use my
name -- Keely -- and have been open about being THAT Keely that people may
know from my marriage to Jeff, my former position on the school board, or
my very public and passionate criticism of Christ Church. And so as
Keely Emerine Mix, I've taken a lot of the same kind of hits as Debi R-S
has (and, by the way, I consider her a friend and appreciate her gutsy
approach to debate). If you feel that it would be unwise or
uncomfortable to be a target, that's understandable -- more than one
person has questioned my sanity for continuing to stay in the fray, and I
periodically go through mini-fasts from this and other media to re-examine
both my conduct and my motives. <BR><BR>Unfortunately, there's a
need to respond coherently and sensibly to Tony's special brand of bigotry
and chomping, foaming hysteria. No other reasonable human being
would consider "raghead" appropriate under any circumstances, and
virtually no one would argue seriously that the "N" word is "just for
gang-bangers" and thus not necessarily offensive, as you cite in your
post. It's disingenuous and not terribly clever to parade "fag,"
"gay," and other examples of English evolving to try to justify using
contemptible epithets. (And woe be it to anyone whose epitaph read
that he or she was a user of racial epithets . . . ). Ignoring Tony
would be easy, I'll grant. But it's necessary that the filth and
hatred contained in his words be exposed, be examined,
and be challenged. You appear to be someone who can do that
eloquently and with insight, Walter, and I'm sorry to lose you.<BR><BR>And
yes, I fully expect to be publicly excoriated by the erudite Mr.
Simpson. I'd care more, but dang -- I have to sweep up cat litter
now, knowing that what I find there is about as pleasant as hearing from
Tony.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
<HR>
From: tonytime@clearwire.net<BR>To: don.nergal@gmail.com<BR>Date: Mon,
16 Apr 2007 15:36:28 -0700<BR>CC: vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Parting shots, fired high<BR><BR>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Dear Mr. Timid, Thanks for acknowledging
that my participation in this forum is not un-American after all.
Glad we resolved that wrenching question. As to my determination
to force my beliefs down other's throats, I simply feel that you do not
have the right force your view down our throats: that innocent children
should be ripped in pieces from their mother's womb. For Christ's
sake, Mr. hide in the shadows, which view is more compassionate?
Life for the innocent, or death at your whim? You people are
utterly mad!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Apparently unsatisfied to reveal yourself
as an insensitive enabler of the culture of death, you then go on to
accuse me of redefining racial "epitaphs." One wonders, surely you
meant epithets? You cannot grasp how one could resent murderous
bomb-throwers and then insult them without having ill will toward any
race in particular. Why must one's use of RAGHEAD or any other
term, for that matter, be viewed from one particular angle of
meaning when the English language evolves regularly? Gay used to
mean happy and carefree, now it means homosexual. Fag once
referred to a cigarette, now, well.... You can see how the meaning
of terms takes on different meanings over time. Why am I not
allowed to participate in the evolution of language? You folks
have been writing Newspeak for decades. What's the matter Mr.
Timid? Can't take any of your own medicine?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>As for my comparison of Nick Gier to Josef
Mengele: Given Gier's whacked out pronouncements which have
consistently revealed him to be an intellectual mutant, devoid of a
soul, I STAND FIRMLY BY MY CHARGE.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>And YOU sir, need to cope with the first
amendment and GET OVER IT!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>With the courage to sign my
name,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>TONY</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(0,0,0) 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=don.nergal@gmail.com
href="mailto:don.nergal@gmail.com">Walter Smith</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Monday, April 16, 2007 9:46 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Vision2020] Parting shots</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>First, I want to again say thank you to those willing
to participate in this forum, and for the welcome I have received from
most, despite the "drive-by posting" nature of my own recent
semi-participation. Your taking part in this forum, despite the
personal dangers, is courageous and demonstrates that there may still
be hope for democracy. Thank you Debi, in particular, for staying with
it, even after facing the indignities some on here are willing to hurl
your way. Despite this, I do not believe I will actively participate,
for a number of reasons. I do not feel comfortable posting here under
my own name (nor do I believe it would be appropriate for me to do so,
at this time), but I dislike anonymous bomb-throwing. My reason for
posting here in the first place was anger, anger in particular at the
recent treatment afforded Mr. Johnson and Mr. Butler. In all truth,
the only reaction I have to much of what takes place on vision2020 is
anger, and anger is not something I need to promote in myself. It
isn't good for my blood pressure, nor for my soul. I may from time to
time reply on here again, probably as some new
Moscow-special-powder-keg blows up once more. <BR><BR>I was going to
post some of the more offensive responses to my initial joke as a sort
of skin-thickness test; but decided not to, based in part on the fact
that the authors did not decide to make them public themselves, and
that while I would get some visceral pleasure watching the reactions,
no real purpose would be served. I also avoid it, because while
intended as a jab at over-sensitivity, I am about to display my own
(perhaps over-) sensitivity on a particular matter, and the irony
would simply be too much. <BR><BR>On to that sensitivity...<BR><BR>Mr.
Simpson would like to know what exactly he said that I find
"disgusting and un-American", and so I will respond to him here, once
only. In truth, I mis-used the term "un-American," as there is really
little that is more American than arguing politics, particularly with
the vehemence Mr. Simpson demonstrates. What I meant by it is that his
posts generally argue a position I find diametrically opposed to the
true greatness of our American way. He consistently supports an
administration that is undermining our basic freedoms, exemplified by
the recent loss of habeas corpus, although there are many other
examples. He supports the authoritarian imposition by government force
of his own personal beliefs, such as denying women the right to make
their own reproductive choices, denying due process to those accused
of terrorism, and denying homosexuals the basic human dignity of
marriage. He also seems to enjoy employing a favorite tactic of the
white-supremacist, that being the tactic of attempting to redefine
racial epitaphs. Tony says "raghead" only applies to terrorists, he
has no problem with Arabs (while also being willfully ignorant of fact
that his term actually targets entirely different groups); The vile
hal turner says "nigger" only applies to gang-bangers, he has no
problem with blacks; "spic" only applies to illegal immigrants, he has
no problem with Mexicans; Yeah, right... More sick fantasies please.
These are the things I find "un-American." While I would not attempt
to stop them from saying what they will, their words do cost them my
respect. <BR><BR>Any right you would deprive others of without due
process, is a right you yourself do not deserve. This is the same
basic problem I have with what J Ford has been saying of
late.<BR><BR>As for what amongst Mr. Simpson's comments I find
"disgusting", above and beyond what I have already said, and the
fundamental reason I have little to no respect for the man: There is
really only one thing, that being Mr. Simpson's comparison of Prof.
Gier to mengele. I tend to agree with Godwin, that anytime a
comparison to nazis is made, there is no longer any hope of a rational
conversation. I do understand that in the heat of argument,
inappropriate things will be said, and can certainly be forgiven, even
something so base as a nazi comparison, even something so evil as a
comparison to mengele. But Mr. Simpson did not seek forgiveness after
cooling down, nor did he even recognize the evil he had committed (and
yes, I do consider saying what he said to be an act of evil,) rather
he decided to stand by his guns and reiterate his vile comparison. The
things the nazis did are near always beyond compare, we have
thankfully not seen the like for over half a century, and hopefully
never will again (current events, particularly the actions of our
current "leaders", do give me pause, however.) But the things mengele
did go far beyond even typical nazi filth, he was one of the greatest
evils this world has ever faced, and in my opinion far worse even than
hitler himself. Short of the actual re-creation of his atrocities (may
that such a thing never comes to pass,) nothing can compare. Any
comparison to anything in our modern world is inappropriate, only
diminishes our collective memory, and serves to legitimize mengele's
deeds. Comparisons to serial killers, to terrorists, to dictators, to
rapists, or to anything else, can only weaken our understanding and
our rage. To make such a comparison to a person who simply supports a
woman's right to make her own choices (even if one were to consider
such a thing murder,) is beyond disgusting. Nick is not kidnapping
women and vivisecting them in the name of science, nor is he even
performing abortions, he is simply pro-choice. Mr. Simpson's words in
actuality say nothing about Prof. Gier, but they do show grave
disrespect to those who were tortured and died at mengele's hands,
insult those who laid down their own lives to stop him, risk
legitimizing his crimes (thus putting all our descendants futures at
risk,) and reveal Mr. Simpson himself as a degenerate.
<BR><BR>Sincerely, and at least for now, finally,<BR>Anon<BR><BR>
<HR>
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