<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
--></style><title>Re: [Vision2020] water
development</title></head><body>
<div>Sunil is referring to the study done by the Army Corps of
Engineers sometime way back when that looked at the Palouse,
Clearwater and Snake Rivers as possible water sources for Moscow. Even
back then (1974 I think) the energy costs of pumping water uphill to
Moscow were prohibitive. The only person I know who has an actual copy
of the study is Joel Hamilton. There is likely one in the UI
library.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>m.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>At 3:27 PM -0700 4/14/07, Donovan Arnold wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Sunil,</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>You asked:</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>"My limited reading on this issue
suggests that at least in the last 100<br>
years or so, most large-scale water development depended heavily on
funds<br>
provided by taxpayers. You have suggested, both recently and in the
past,<br>
that we should try to get water from the Clearwater River, as the
Moscow<br>
water is so poor. Wouldn't a project of this scale also require
taxpayer<br>
funds, and not be provided by private enterprise? I believe Mark
Solomon<br>
provided some information on this issue a few months
ago."</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Half a dozen not six seems to be
your argument Sunil. Regardless of if we tax a business directly or
take it from individuals who gained wealth from that
business, the taxes raised are still coming from the businesses
production. Governments don't make money, they take it from
others.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I think if you were to do a water
project, say over 25-50 years to access water from the
Clearwater, you could pay for it with a graduated
water usage tax levied against business that use
water. Another approach would be to attract several
businesses that use lots of water and make an agreement with them
that if they were to heavily finance a long term water project
to provide a larger source of fresh water to the community,
they could have full access of the current water aquifer for
production purposes.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>There are many different approaches to
using the value of the resources we have to finance other resources we
don't. If you have gold but no oil, you use the gold to buy
oil. We have valuable clay but limited low quality water. We
should sell the clay to get the water we need. We should not sit on
that resource, we should use it, there are billions of
dollars in revenue to be had. To make people drink bad water and work
for low paying jobs, when unnecessary, I think goes against human
rights.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Sunil, I would love to read the article
about the Clearwater access costs provided by Mr. Solomon if you
could provide a link.</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Best,</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Donovan </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br>
<br>
<i><b>Sunil Ramalingam <sunilramalingam@hotmail.com></b></i>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote>Donovan,<br>
<br>
You wrote,<br>
<br>
"By allowing businesses that depend on water for profit to invest
heavily<br>
into Moscow, it is virtually letting private enterprise find a
solution to<br>
the problem for us. If a business makes or loses all of its profits by
way<br>
of water, it is going to do all it can to keep the city water wells
full,<br>
including finding, hiring and paying the people and resources needed
to do<br>
it."<br>
<br>
My limited reading on this issue suggests that at least in the last
100<br>
years or so, most large-scale water development depended heavily on
funds<br>
provided by taxpayers. You have suggested, both recently and in the
past,<br>
that we should try to get water from the Clearwater River, as the
Moscow<br>
water is so poor. Wouldn't a project of this scale also require
taxpayer<br>
funds, and not be provided by private enterprise? I believe Mark
Solomon<br>
provided some information on this issue a few months ago.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>From: Donovan Arnold<br>
>To: Mark Solomon , lfalen ,<br>
> "g. crabtree" , vision2020@moscow.com<br>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Corridor debate: Daily News<br>
>Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2007 20:20:44 -0700 (PDT)<br>
><br>
>I have to agree with Professor Harkins's approach on this issue.
Mr.<br>
>Solomon's ideas are not based on economic realities and don't
solve the<br>
>water problem, it just prolongs it.<br>
><br>
> Conservation is fine, but you have to have a viable plan to
eventually<br>
>get to another water source. Developing restrictive policies that
block the</blockquote>
<blockquote>>engineers, developers and capital to tap another
source of water is going<br>
>in the opposite direction we need to go.<br>
><br>
> Water isn't just going to just appear on its own, we have to find
it and<br>
>access it. By allowing businesses that depend on water for profit
to invest<br>
>heavily into Moscow, it is virtually letting private enterprise
find a<br>
>solution to the problem for us. If a business makes or loses all
of its<br>
>profits by way of water, it is going to do all it can to keep the
city<br>
>water wells full, including finding, hiring and paying the people
and<br>
>resources needed to do it.<br>
><br>
> Mr. Solomon's plan of rejecting all businesses that use water and
only<br>
>except businesses that are think tanks comprised of 18 year old
college<br>
>students seems unrealistic and does not bring any resources to
tackle the<br>
>water issue.<br>
><br>
> Further, I think developing the corridor is the best way to go.
It<br>
>prevents sprawl to the outer areas of the cities and congestion in
already<br>
>developed areas.<br>
><br>
> Thinking we shouldn't have stocking and service orientated jobs
for<br>
>students I think is a bad idea. First, those lower paying jobs
should go to<br>
>college students, not 40 year olds trying to make a living;
somebody has to<br>
>ask, "Would you like fries with that?" And I don't think
it should be<br>
>people middle aged with Master's in Environmental Science.<br>
><br>
> Finally, most of the City's problems would diminish if we
allow<br>
>businesses to expand and new businesses to come in. Wages are a
function of<br>
>how much wealth a worker produces and the supply of qualified
workers.<br>
>Lots of low wealth producing jobs help raise wages because it
reduces the<br>
>ratio of workers-to-jobs. Wealthy production jobs, like clay
extraction,<br>
>produce greater wealth for the community, but those jobs usually
require a<br>
>specific skill set so they rarely raise wages except for the
few<br>
>individuals with that limited skill set.<br>
><br>
> Bottom-line is Latah needs jobs. It needs low value jobs and high
value<br>
>jobs too. Prolonging conservation of water does not end the
crisis, you<br>
>need a solution. The solution is to bring in the industry,
people,<br>
>resources, and capital to get you more water.<br>
><br>
> Move forward to the solution, not backwards.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
><br>
> Donovan<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>Mark Solomon wrote:<br>
> Corridor growth debate heats up at UI<br>
><br>
>A local activist and a university professor speak to development
on the<br>
>Palouse<br>
><br>
>By Ryan Bentley, Daily News staff writer<br>
><br>
>Friday, April 13, 2007 - Page Updated at 12:00:00 AM<br>
><br>
>Jeff Harkins said the Moscow community is the only thing that
holds back a<br>
>change in property use on the Palouse. Mark Solomon said the
Palouse itself<br>
>is a limitation.<br>
><br>
>Both acknowledged the need for growth in the region during a
Thursday night<br>
>forum at the University of Idaho sponsored by the UI Economics
Club, but<br>
>that's about as close as the two came to agreement on what should
be done.<br>
><br>
>Harkins, a UI accounting professor, and Solomon, a local activist
who<br>
>recently filed a protest to water right transfers for a
proposed<br>
>large-scale development in the corridor just west of Moscow,
debated<br>
>development in the corridor along the Pullman-Moscow Highway.
Corridor<br>
>development has emerged as a hot topic over the last few years
after<br>
>Whitman County designated the area as a development zone.<br>
><br>
>Thursday's discussion revolved around growth laws, social
conditions, water<br>
>and how it applied to corridor growth.<br>
><br>
>Currently, the Hawkins Companies' proposed 700,000-square-foot
shopping<br>
>center and the construction of James Toyota's new dealership
constitute the<br>
>bulk of the emerging businesses in the corridor.<br>
><br>
>Harkins advocated a "market-take-charge" approach, where
consumers decide<br>
>what businesses locate in the area. He added that Moscow must
honor state<br>
>sovereignty lines if the Palouse is going to bolster its economic
engine.<br>
><br>
>Solomon said Whitman and Latah counties must work together and
select<br>
>businesses that will offer low-impact practices and high-paying
jobs on the<br>
>Palouse.<br>
><br>
>While Harkins said college students need the part-time jobs a new
shopping<br>
>center would bring, Solomon said students would be better off
studying and</blockquote>
<blockquote>>diving into the opportunities the university offers
than wasting their time<br>
>stocking shelves and running a cash register.<br>
><br>
>Instead, Solomon said, the Palouse should encourage intellectual
based<br>
>businesses that could employ students and pay them a living wage
while<br>
>adding to their education.<br>
><br>
>The differences between the two speakers comes from their
perception of the<br>
>natural resources of the Palouse.<br>
><br>
>Solomon believes Palouse residents face a water scarcity problem.
He said<br>
>growth can occur but it cannot be through a floodgate approach.
Anyone who<br>
>depends on groundwater will be in jeopardy if the area doesn't
rein in<br>
>development and quickly work to solve the problem of overusing the
areas<br>
>groundwater supply.<br>
><br>
>Harkins doesn't believe there are physical limitations to
development of<br>
>the Palouse. He said Whitman and Latah counties should be able to
find an<br>
>alternative water supply from the two counties that receive around
24<br>
>inches of rain a year.<br>
><br>
>The area needs to expand and grow to attract people to the area
who will be<br>
>able to work on the problem, Harkins said. The increased tax base
will<br>
>allow the two counties to pay for projects to solve water
problems.<br>
><br>
>Part of the area's growth will occur in the corridor, Solomon and
Harkins<br>
>said.<br>
><br>
>Optimally, Solomon doesn't want development in the corridor. He
said it<br>
>will cause congestion, lead to sprawl and put pressure on the
water supply<br>
>in an area that is most likely a place where groundwater flows
into the<br>
>aquifer system. Growth should occur around existing urban areas
and not be<br>
>strung out along supply routes.<br>
><br>
>Harkins said the expansion of the Pullman-Moscow Highway from
two-lanes to<br>
>four-lanes is a huge step to connecting the two counties. Growth
in the<br>
>corridor should focus on connectivity between the two
universities.<br>
>Development should be led by entrepreneurs who foresee a need and
aim to<br>
>fill it.<br>
><br>
>Solomon doesn't foresee endless growth opportunities in the
corridor. James<br>
>Toyota and the proposed Hawkins Companies development grabbed a
large<br>
>portion of land available for development in the corridor. Any
more growth<br>
>will be by businesses that do not demand a large
infrastructure.<br>
><br>
>Harkins said it's time for Latah County to destroy its image that
it<br>
>interferes with Whitman County business and focus on how it can
remain<br>
>competitive in the Palouse.<br>
><br>
>Solomon said Latah County doesn't have to compete. It doesn't
need<br>
>Wal-Marts and big-box stores to attract new businesses like
Schweitzer<br>
>Engineering Labs. He likened Moscow to Boise before its building
boom.<br>
>Solomon said the area's natural beauty, way of life and
opportunities will<br>
>keep Latah County competitive.<br>
><br>
>Ryan Bentley can be reached at (208) 882-5561, ext. 237, or by
e-mail at<br>
>rbentley@dnews.com.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> At 1:14 PM -0700 4/13/07, lfalen wrote:<br>
> Vary well said, as usual. I missed last nights debate. I was
moving hay<br>
>until 6:00. How did it go?<br>
> Roger=======================================================<br>
>List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
>http://www.fsr.net<br>
>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
>=======================================================<br>
><br>
><br>
>---------------------------------<br>
>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?<br>
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.<br>
<br>
<br>
>=======================================================<br>
> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
> http://www.fsr.net<br>
> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
>=======================================================<br>
<br>
<br>
=======================================================<br>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>
http://www.fsr.net<br>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>
=======================================================<br>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><br></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite> </blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>
<hr size="1"></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>Ahhh...imagining that irresistible
"new car" smell?<br>
Check out <a
href=
"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48245/*http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html;_ylc=X3oDMTE1YW1jcXJ2BF9TAzk3MTA3MDc2BHNlYwNtYWlsdGFncwRzbGsDbmV3LWNhcnM-"><span
></span>new cars at Yahoo! Autos.</a></blockquote>
<div><br></div>
</body>
</html>