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<DIV>Paul,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>We are in some agreement, especially about false accusations in divorce
cases, but I am puzzled by your statement:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"I just think that we have to balance the risk of
further harm to children if he is guilty with the possible harm done to this
man's whole life if he is innocent."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I think most of the harm is done to an innocent accused when the charge is
first made. If the accused is ultimately found to be innocent, then some
of the harm may be mitigated. I do not believe that keeping the son away
from his father's church during the period of uncertainty is going to add
substantially to the damage already incurred by the filing of the charges.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am concerned about the period between the first formal charge, which
causes the damage, and the final disposition. Unlike your predisposition,
I do not always agree with a judge's decision given a set of
facts/probabilities. For all of us locals, the Frederick Russell case
comes to mind, along with the Sitler Case. Googling can find many other
cases where a judge's discretion has not been used wisely. In fact, that
is the basis of this discussion thread.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>According to news reports of the Robinson case the alleged sexual contact
started when the alleged victim was 15 years old and continued for
about two years. <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT></STRONG> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Youth Pastor</FONT></STRONG> Robinson is
about 29 years old. He has been married for about 8 years. He was 27
and the alleged victim was 15 when the alleged molestation started. If the
allegations are true, it is just not sexual behavior that is the issue, but
<STRONG>predatory</STRONG> sexual behavior by a power figure in an allegedly
spiritual sanctum. Hence, another reason to err on the side of
caution.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here is another aspect of the problem; it is not an imaginary one
as something similar happened in a local case where allegedly not just
one but five children of one family were molested:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>After a charge is made, especially of a member of or a professional in a
religious or other close-knit organization, sometimes an enormous amount of
pressure of various kinds are exerted on the victim and the victim's family to
change their story, to suppress important parts of the story, and/or to
agree to a sweetheart plea bargain.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In the Robinson case where the accused father is the pastor of the
church where the accused worked and where at least some of the alleged
molestation occurred, the message being sent to the congregation seems to be
that the youth pastor by his redeployment in the church is innocent. Such
a message from the senior pastor appears to be a not-so-subtle message to the
congregation that the alleged victim and her family are lying, and the
congregation needs to take action in support of his son, action which would be
designed to pressure the victim and the victim's family.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In my opinion the best thing for the health of the congregation, and
certainly for the victim and the victim's family would be for the father to keep
the son away from the church and let the legal process reach a conclusion.
I would also argue that a condition of bail, if bail was warranted at all, would
be continuous electronic monitoring.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>W.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 05, 2007 8:30 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [Bulk] Re: What is wrong with this
picture?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>I agree it's serious, I agree about the recidivism rate, I
understand the quandary this puts some pastors in. I just think that we
have to balance the risk of further harm to children if he is guilty with the
possible harm done to this man's whole life if he is innocent. It's a hard
balancing act to pull off, I'm sure.<BR><BR>While the no-contact order was
presumably based on cogent evidence, so presumably was the lessening of that
order. Without having in front of me what Judge McDermott had in front of
him I have no way of judging the two judges in this one. I see nothing
wrong with a no-contact order, it seems prudent to me, but without any other
data I have to assume the judge knows what he is doing.<BR><BR>I really just
wanted to stave off the trashing of this man's life here on the Viz until after
he is found guilty, assuming that he is, in fact, found guilty. This
lessens the impact of an accusation of child abuse or molestation as a weapon in
a dispute. While enough evidence was presumably found for this man to be
charged with the crime, isn't it possible that the system is erring on the side
of the child (rightly so) and that the evidence may not be as concrete as we
think? How many unfounded accusations of child abuse come up in heated
divorce cases, for example?<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>Art Deco wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE cite=mid003101c77791$ea4b5fc0$6401a8c0@LocalHost type="cite">
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<DIV>Paul,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Yes, in the eyes of the law the alleged molester is innocent until proven
guilty. He may be, in fact, innocent.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>However, he was charged, which means that a magistrate found enough
evidence to take that serious step. Then a no-contact order was issued
presumably based on cogent evidence. The no-contact order not only
prohibits the alleged molester from contacting the alleged victims, but an
even stronger "from contacting people younger than 18."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The question here is what prudent actions should be taken while the legal
process is grinding away in these cases. I think that a strict
no-contact order is among the prudent actions if the alleged
molester is judged to be a lesser risk that should be granted bail.
</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In this case "...the prosecutor's office is worried that the youth pastor
still has access to minors at the church. Robinson also is allegedly still
participating in a church Web site that is frequented by the congregation's
youth." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hence, I don't think it prudent to allow the alleged molester to
frequent/work at the place where:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. At least one of the alleged crimes occurred and/or
there is a possibility of contact with the victim (unless the victim forgoes
the services of the church, an action which appears warranted in this case)
or,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>2. Contact, electronic or otherwise, with those under
18 who might come to the church offices. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Though there is not complete agreement among authorities of what the
actual rate is, it appears that the recidivism rate for sexual molesters is
very high.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>It is a difficult for society and its protectors in the criminal justice
system to decide what to do with an alleged, but not yet tried child
molester. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As with all of us the alleged molester has certain rights including the
right to bail with appropriate conditions. On the other hand, there is
always the enhanced possibility that the alleged molester may, while out on
bail, re-offend or attempt directly or indirectly to intimidate his alleged
victims and/or their families. In a recent case in Latah County where an
offender was left on his own in another state for six months, there is still
an open question of whether a re-offense or several
re-offenses occurred. Because of the disposition of this particular
case, that question may be never answered publicly.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Depending on the circumstances in some cases, bail with electronic
monitoring may be appropriate. In some cases bail may not be
appropriate. The issue concerns weighing the rights of the alleged
molester and an estimate the particular molester's risk factor against the
possible/probable harm to real, vulnerable people. For my part, I would
err on the side of caution in this particular case and in child molestation
cases in general.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I have appended below the line today's segment from the Spokesman-Review
series on child abuse. This segment deals in part with this
issue from the viewpoint of religious professionals. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Since I am a non-believer, I do not agree with some of the views
expressed in the article. The most important question that remains for
me is how to protect possible victims and potential victims while not
violating civil liberties given our current state of knowledge. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regardless of the hype from certain psychologists and from certain
religious professionals, we have not advanced our knowledge in this field
enough to say with any great probability which offenders, if left anatomically
whole, will reoffend. There is some evidence from Denmark that voluntary
castration of male offenders makes a dramatic though not complete reduction in
the recidivism rate. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In terms of the article below, I do not believe that all offenders are
"capable of redemption" or in secular terms, being prevented from
reoffending. It doesn't take much Googling to provide ample
evidence for this viewpoint.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>W.</DIV>
<DIV>_________________________________________________________</DIV>
<DIV>
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<TD align=right><FONT face="tahoma, sans-serif" size=2>Thursday,
April 5, 2007</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><!--include virtual="/inc/story_guts_print.asp"-->
<P><STRONG>Churches grapple with dilemma of allowing sex offenders into
congregations, weighing vulnerability of parishioners against the principle
that everyone is capable of redemption </STRONG></P>
<H2>Finding forgiveness </H2>
<P>
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<P class=caption>"If we are really going to live as Christians,
then we're going to have to deal with this," says Pastor Steve
Nickodemus, right, of Christ Our Redeemer Lutheran Church in
Sandpoint, describing sex offenders who want to attend church.<!-- 05_abusemain_04-05-2007_1SA7V7T.jpg-->
</P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR>
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<P class=byline><SPAN class=name><A
href="http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news/bylines.asp?bylinename=Virginia%20De%20Leon">Virginia
De Leon </A></SPAN><BR>Staff writer<BR>April 5, 2007</P><!---------Code for Big Ads-------------------><!---------End Code for Big Ads------------------->
<P><SPAN>H</SPAN>e didn't want to lie to his pastor. </P>
<P>So the man told him everything: The terms of his probation. The years in
prison. The fact that he had molested a child. </P>
<P>He wanted to come to church, the sex offender told the Rev. Steve
Nickodemus. He wanted to repent for his sins and seek the grace of God. </P>
<P>Nickodemus, pastor of Christ Our Redeemer Lutheran Church in Sandpoint,
didn't quite know what to do at first. His church – home of the Little Lamb
Preschool and Kindergarten – was full of vulnerable children. Some families
also would certainly object to worshipping with a sex offender.</P>
<P>Yet, before him was this man asking for guidance, begging for a chance at
redemption.</P>
<P>Other pastors have faced the same dilemma. </P>
<P>According to Keeping Kids Safe Ministries, a Tennessee-based organization
that assists churches with this challenge, convicted sex offenders are
attending church in increasing numbers. Greg Sporer, a therapist and one of
the founders of Keeping Kids Safe, estimates that at least half of the
country's roughly 500,000 registered sex offenders are participating in
worship services, often without telling the pastors. And others who have
committed sex crimes but have never been caught are also showing up at
church.</P>
<P>
<TABLE align=left>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>"They're attending church silently and in
secret, which is a risk to kids," Sporer said. "Without accountability, you
don't know if they're praying to God or preying on kids."</P>
<P>Some pastors, as well as church members, wouldn't think twice about turning
a sex offender away. They're too dangerous, they say, too much of a
liability.</P>
<P>But Nickodemus sensed remorse from the man who asked permission three years
ago to attend Christ Our Redeemer, so he embraced the challenge. "If we are
really going to live as Christians, then we're going to have to deal with
this," he said.</P>
<P>Somehow, he had to find a balance between the moral obligation of
protecting the children and the church's mission of helping those in
need.</P><SPAN class=subhead>'The safest in Spokane'</SPAN><BR>
<P>While kids learn about Jesus and the Bible in a separate room downstairs,
the adult members of Spokane's Community Bible Chapel remain in the sanctuary
for worship.</P>
<P>About 75 percent of the roughly 300 members here are in some sort of
recovery – including abnormal addictions to sex.</P>
<P>Convicted sex offenders are among the worshippers at the non-denominational
church, but Pastor Danny Green believes his church "is probably the safest in
Spokane."</P>
<P>"We are a family," said Green, "and people here are very protective of
their family."</P>
<P>Nonetheless, Green enforces strict rules when it comes to the kids. He
won't let anyone spend time with the youth group unless she or he undergoes an
extensive background check. No one who has been convicted of a sex crime can
be on the same floor with the kids, and adults are never allowed to be alone
with children. During Sunday services, parishioners in charge of security
always monitor the halls, restrooms and other areas.</P>
<P>He also communicates regularly with probation officers who keep track of
some of his members – level 2 and level 3 sex offenders and others who have
just been released from prison and are on probation.</P>
<P>Every Wednesday and Friday night, sex offenders, drug addicts, alcoholics
and others suffering from "hurts, habits and hang-ups" gather at Community
Bible for Celebrate Recovery. For several hours, they meet in small groups to
talk openly about the crimes of their past, their current problems and
temptations, their hopes for a better life.</P>
<P>"Everyone is welcome here," said Green, who once struggled with alcohol and
drug addictions. "We've all made mistakes in our past, so we don't judge."</P>
<P>Green acknowledges that sexual abuse is a heinous crime, but even sex
offenders need spiritual guidance in order to prevent them from hurting others
again. Plus, the mere fact that they've come to church and acknowledged their
crimes is a step in the right direction.</P>
<P>"They're not walking through the doors to abuse our kids," Green said.
"They want to change their lives. … We don't look at them as sex offenders; we
see them as humans struggling in the world."</P>
<P>Before ending up at Green's church – a place known in the prison system and
the streets for its Celebrate Recovery program – many of the sex offenders try
attending other congregations, often without informing the pastor of their
presence.</P>
<P>They fear rejection, said Al West, who offers a one-man, Bible-based
ministry in Spokane for convicted sex offenders, drug addicts and other
convicted criminals.</P>
<P>"The sex offender is the new leper in our society," he said. Nobody wants
them, he said, and they have nowhere to go. So they keep their past secret,
which often becomes detrimental to their efforts to refrain from crime. "A
hidden life can be demonic," he said. "It keeps you in bondage."</P>
<P>West doesn't think most pastors in the region are prepared to work with sex
offenders. He also isn't sure if the traditional church environment is
conducive to a population that requires a high degree of supervision and
accountability.</P>
<P>Before allowing the registered sex offender to attend Christ Our Redeemer,
Nickodemus talked to the man about the crime he committed against his
stepdaughter many years ago. They discussed his living conditions, his
therapy, his support network and the probation he would have to follow for the
next 13 years.</P>
<P>After consulting with church elders, Nickodemus laid out some parameters
for the man: He could come to church, but only with a chaperon who would
accompany him from the moment he stepped out of the car. He must stay away
from children. He would be constantly watched.</P>
<P>Three years since that initial conversation, the sex offender has continued
to attend a men's group and worship services at Christ Our Redeemer. Despite
some initial concern and outrage, most members who attend the 11 a.m. service
know and have accepted the fact that there's a sex offender at church.</P>
<P>"I had to overcome some of my own fears," said Nickodemus, the church's
pastor for more than a dozen years. "There are some sex offenders out there
who are not conforming to what the law requires, but they won't be the ones
who'll come to you and ask if they can come to church."</P><SPAN
class=subhead>Silence is greatest risk</SPAN><BR>
<P>When you proclaim God's grace and leave the doors wide open, you just never
know who will show up at church, acknowledged Alvin Moreno, pastor of
Spokane's Victory Outreach.</P>
<P>There are more than 15,000 convicted sex offenders eligible for
registration in Washington state, according to the Spokane County Sheriff's
Office. More than 1,000 live in Spokane County.</P>
<P>In Idaho, there are 264 adult sex offenders registered in Kootenai County
and another 81 in Bonner County, according to the Idaho State Police.</P>
<P>But sex offenders who make themselves known to a congregation shouldn't be
a church's greatest fear, according to Moreno, who regularly ministers to gang
members, prostitutes and other higher-risk populations.</P>
<P>It's actually the offenders who have never been caught or who refuse to
identify themselves who pose the greatest risk.</P>
<P>"When people think about sex offenders, they picture guys with wild hair
and big beards ready to prey on society," said West, who has spent nearly two
decades ministering to sex offenders. "But sex offenders come from every walk
of life. They include business people and clergy. … They are people with
families and children."</P>
<P>Offenders include those who have a high level of trust within a group or
community, he said.</P>
<P>Consider the sexual abuse scandal that has rocked the Roman Catholic
Church. One of the most notorious offenders was Patrick O'Donnell, a man who
used the power of the priesthood to endear himself to families so that he
could groom and molest boys. In depositions, O'Donnell has admitted to abusing
so many boys that he couldn't remember all their names.</P>
<P>In response to the scandal, American bishops in 2002 enacted new policies
to ensure the protection of children and others who are vulnerable. Those
rules include reporting any allegations of abuse to law enforcement and a
strict code of conduct for clergy and employees.</P>
<P>Churches of every denomination have followed suit. Most congregations do
not allow adults to be left alone with a child unless the child is that
person's own son or daughter. They also require adult volunteers and employees
to meet with children at the church or other public places instead of a
private residence. And anyone who wishes to work with young people must first
be screened and undergo a thorough background check, according to several area
churches.</P>
<P>Enforcing these policies not only promotes safety, it also protects a
church from lawsuits, Moreno said.</P>
<P>"The key is to provide a safe environment at all times," said the Rev. Dave
Olson, pastor of First Lutheran Church in Sandpoint. </P>
<P>Although he has never had to deal with the sex offender issue, the safety
of his congregation is always a priority. "The problem with the registered sex
offender program is that it assumes only people who are at risk are those with
a prior record, but most of the abuse that takes place involves someone who
has not previously been convicted," he said.</P>
<P>"You may have a sex offender at your church, so you have to create an
environment that protects everybody."</P><SPAN class=subhead>Welcome not
universal</SPAN><BR>
<P>For most pastors who have had a sex offender at church, figuring out a way
to minister to the offender while protecting children is only half the battle.
They also have to work the issue out with members of their congregation.</P>
<P>Five years ago, a man who had been convicted of child molestation but had
been out of prison for several years approached the leaders of First Lutheran
Church in Spirit Lake for permission to attend services.</P>
<P>The pastor, after setting some parameters, allowed the offender to come.
But the man wasn't welcomed by everyone after his presence was made known
after a service one Sunday, according to John Halverson, the church's current
pastor who served as deacon at the time. Some people threatened to leave if
the offender continued to attend church.</P>
<P>So the man stopped going to services. Still seeking spiritual guidance, he
asked Halverson to meet with him at home for Bible study and prayer. They met
regularly until the man's death two years ago.</P>
<P>"He was repentant of his sins," Halverson said. "As a Christian and as a
pastor, I welcomed him."</P>
<P>Halverson doesn't think every sex offender should be allowed at church, but
"repentant sinners" should always be welcome – as long as they are under
careful watch.</P>
<P>Despite initial fears, most of the people at Christ the Redeemer have grown
from the experience of having a sex offender in their midst, said
Nickodemus.</P>
<P>"Is there opportunity for grace?" he asked. "I've talked to other pastors
about this and sometimes, they just freak out. They don't know what to do and
are afraid of the whole thing."</P>
<P>He acknowledged that churches remain vulnerable – to someone with a gun, to
sex offenders, to anyone with an agenda of any kind. But as a Christian
congregation, risk becomes part of their spiritual growth, he said.</P>
<P>Having a sex offender come to services has actually been "very healthy" for
the congregation, he said. "It makes us wrestle with our own sins and our own
prejudices," he said.</P>
<P>His presence also keeps them grounded in reality.</P>
<P>"Being 'real' doesn't mean that everything is just fine, we're all nice
here and when you've done something wrong, you're out," said Nickodemus.
"Finding the balance between truth and grace – that is what 'real'
means."</P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=godshatter@yahoo.com href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul
Rumelhart</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 04, 2007 6:54 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] What is wrong with this
picture?</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Don't take this as condoning anything this guy may have done,
but remember that he is presumed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court
of law. If this wasn't the case, then you could accuse anyone of
anything heinous with little or no evidence and ruin their lives before they
even have a chance to defend themselves.<BR><BR>That having being said,
certain precautions are probably in order. The question here is really
are the current precautions being taken enough. Not knowing the details,
I have little to base my judgement upon. Presumably (hopefully) Judge
McDermott has a bit more on which to base his
judgement.<BR><BR>Paul<BR><BR>Art Deco wrote:
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<TD align=right><FONT face="tahoma, sans-serif" size=2>Wednesday,
April 4, 2007</FONT></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR><!--include virtual="/inc/story_guts_print.asp"-->
<H2>Accused youth pastor can keep working at church </H2>
<P class=byline><SPAN class=name><A
href="http://www.spokesmanreview.com/news/bylines.asp?bylinename=Associated%20Press">Associated
Press </A></SPAN><BR>April 4, 2007</P><!---------Code for Big Ads-------------------><!---------End Code for Big Ads------------------->
<P>POCATELLO, Idaho – A youth pastor charged with sexually abusing a minor
may continue to work at the church where the crime allegedly occurred, a
judge says.</P>
<P>Joshua J. Robinson, 29, was charged in February with two counts of lewd
conduct with a minor and one count of sexually abusing a minor for allegedly
abusing a teenage girl starting when she was 15 years old.</P>
<P>Because of the charges, a no-contact order was issued directing Robinson
to stay away from the girl. But last month, 6th District Judge Peter
McDermott modified the order, allowing Robinson to return to his job as a
youth pastor at Gate City Christian Church in Chubbuck. Robinson is still
prohibited from contacting people younger than 18.</P>
<P>
<TABLE align=left>
<TBODY>
<TR>
<TD><BR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>On Monday, Bannock County Deputy
Prosecutor Cleve Colson asked the judge to reconsider the change. One of the
charges against Robinson allegedly took place at the church, Colson said,
and the prosecutor's office is worried that the youth pastor still has
access to minors at the church. Robinson also is allegedly still
participating in a church Web site that is frequented by the congregation's
youth, Colson said.</P>
<P>A phone call to the church's senior pastor, John Robinson, was not
immediately returned. John Robinson is Joshua Robinson's father, a church
receptionist said.</P>
<P>Joshua Robinson's attorney, Aaron Thompson of Dial, May & Rammell in
Pocatello, said the younger Robinson is no longer handling youth ministries
at the church and instead is doing administrative duties that don't involve
contact with young people.</P>
<P>McDermott said Robinson could continue to work at the church. A trial has
been scheduled for June 26.</P></DIV><PRE wrap=""><HR width="90%" SIZE=4>
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List services made available by First Step Internet,
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A>
<A class=moz-txt-link-freetext href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A>
=======================================================</PRE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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<P></P>=======================================================<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
http://www.fsr.net
<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>=======================================================</BODY></HTML>