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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>1. Could you make up your mind whether you want to
have this discussion 'mano a mano' or in front of your buddies on the V. It
won't effect the ultimate outcome but it will influence the levels of
familiarity used.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>2. I can accept that the current
administration used the intelligence that it had available at the time to make
decisions about invading Iraq. When you attempt to put your own personnel spin
on it by using terms such as "grossly in error" I'm afraid I must disagree. No
intelligence is perfect except in retrospect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>3. As I stated in my previous post, sent to you
privately and included by you below, you really have to knock it off with the
creepy 'take my hand and I'll lead you down the garden path' routine. You've
overworked it to the point exhaustion. I know I'm more than a little tired of
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>4. If the conclusion that you're referring to was
the one referencing the three P's I'm thinking that you don't guess worth a
damn. On the off chance that I'm wrong and the folks being subject to this silly
discussion wish to think me a dolt, so be it. My self-worth isn't wrapped up in
what you or our unseen audience has as an opinion of my viewpoints. I would
however like to hear from them and know where they think I'm in error. It would
be a welcome change to get input on this topic from people that I might
respect.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 22, 2007 8:02
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] ...but they
will not testify under oath inthematter</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>I wrote:</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"The first step is to show that the pre-war WMD and
.related intelligence gathered and edited by and relied upon by the Bush
Administration to persuade congress to endorse invading Iraq was grossly in
error.</FONT>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>If you can accept that, we can move to the next
step. If not, then readers can draw their own conclusions."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I based the first sentence in part on the bi-partisan senate committee
report which concludes after months of investigations and testimony from all
sides of the issue:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>"that there was no prewar evidence that
Saddam was building weapons of mass destruction and there was no evidence that
Saddam had links to al-Qaeda."</FONT></STRONG>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gary's cogent, germane response is:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"That you're peevish, pompous, and
pedantic is the conclusion that I'm drawing.""</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>I am left to conclude
among other things that you and Pat Kraut must have the same secret sources of
information, though perhaps chimerical, that are denied to the rest of us,
that you share similar ratiocination processes, and that when faced with high
probabilities antithetical to your cherished views, your reaction is to
attempt to be cute. I would not characterize such attempts as successful
on your part, although Pat sometimes can be charmingly amusing with her
attempts.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3><STRONG></STRONG></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3><STRONG>If you are
unwilling to admit even to yourself that there were huge pre-Iraq-war
intelligence problems, then:</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>1. We cannot
proceed to the next step in this discussion which is to examine whether
pressure was applied by high level officials in the Bush administration to
shape intelligence to justify going to war, and thus in part causing the
intelligence failures. After that point we can move a bit
further toward discussing Valerie Plame and the good soldier
Scooter.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>2. Your previous
statement that <FONT color=#0000ff>"<FONT face=Arial size=2>Well Wayne, this
is becoming embarrassing" <FONT face=Verdana color=#000000 size=3>is
clearly reflexively true.</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>3. Your
heroic, attempted defense and refusal to face high probabilities here is
symptomatic of and homomorphic to the Bush administration's myopic failure to
objectively evaluate evidence, explore thoroughly all viable options,
narrow-witted "They tried to kill my daddy" thinking, and failure to put their
egos aside in matters of grave national and international
consequence that got us and the rest of the world into the current Iraq
debacle with all its horrors, pain, death, colossal ineptitude, and other long
lasting, very tragic consequences.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>4. Repeating my
earlier comment: <FONT color=#0000ff>"then readers can draw their own
conclusions." </FONT><FONT color=#000000>I'm guessing, although I may be
wrong, that they will be different in the majority and even among some of
your very conservative allies than the one you drew quoted
above.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 9:10 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] ...but they will not testify under oath
inthematter</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Florence,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>That you're peevish, pompous, and pedantic is the
conclusion that I'm drawing. Feel free to take all the small steps you want,
they seem to be taking you round in little tight circles. Why don't you just
get used to the fact that nobody's taking a fall in this teapot tempest, not
even Mr. Libby and move on, fella. While your at it why don't you knock off
the creepy 'let me take you by the hand' shtick. You've run it into the dirt
as of a couple years ago. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=jampot@adelphia.net
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 8:42
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] ...but they
will not testify under oath inthematter</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Gary writes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2>"For starters why would I
consider any thing from wikipedia to be the final word on
anything?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wikipedia is not the final word. However, it would be interesting
if you could produce evidence showing that the article cited contains
anything false in its summary of the reports at issue. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Here are two relevant quotes from the wikipedia article. Do you
have any evidence that the material in these quotes does not reflect what
was in the senate committee's reports?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=mw-headline><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff>Niger and the Iraqi
nuclear program</FONT></STRONG></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>Section II of the report discussed the handling of
intelligence indicating that Iraq might be attempting to purchase uranium
from Niger. The report examined the role played by former ambassador Joseph
Wilson in investigating the issue, and the way Wilson's assessment was
communicated within the intelligence community. It also discusses the
process whereby references to Iraq's uranium-procurement efforts were
removed from some speeches at the behest of intelligence officials, but left
in President Bush's 2003 State of the Union address. The report concludes
that prior to October, 2002, it was reasonable for the intelligence
community to assess Iraq may have been attempting to obtain uranium from
Africa.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>Section III of the report discusses assessments of
Iraq's domestic nuclear program. It focuses a significant amount of
attention on the intelligence process that took place in the spring of 2001
regarding Iraq's attempts to purchase 60,000 high-strength aluminum tubes.
The CIA concluded that the tubes could be intended for constructing
centrifuges for a uranium-enrichment program (i.e., for a restarted Iraqi
nuclear weapons program); analysts in the Department of Energy and the
Department of Defense considered that to be unlikely.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>The October 2002 NIE stated that Iraq appeared to be
reconsitituting its nuclear weapons program. <STRONG>The Committee's report
concluded that this view was not supported by the underlying intelligence,
and the report agreed with the opinion of the State Department's Bureau of
Intelligence and Research, expressed as an "alternative view" in the NIE,
that the available intelligence did not make "a compelling case for
reconstitution" of the Iraqi nuclear program.</STRONG> The committee reached
several conclusions critical of poor communications between the CIA and
other parts of the intelligence community concerning this issue.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>....</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT> </P></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>Two volumes of the phase II report were released on
September 8, 2006: "</FONT><A class="external text"
title=http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf
href="http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiaccuracy.pdf"
rel=nofollow>Postwar Findings about Iraq's WMD Programs and Links to
Terrorism and How they Compare with Prewar Assessments</A><FONT
color=#0000ff>" and "</FONT><A class="external text"
title=http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiinc.pdf
href="http://intelligence.senate.gov/phaseiiinc.pdf" rel=nofollow>The Use by
the Intelligence Community of Information Provided by the Iraqi National
Congress</A><FONT color=#0000ff>." </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>The
conclusions of these reports were that there was no prewar evidence that
Saddam was building weapons of mass destruction and there was no evidence
that Saddam had links to al-Qaeda.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>You complain that there is not mention of Valerie Plame here. You
are correct. Having noticed your capacity before, I am going in small
steps. The first step is to show that the pre-war WMD and related
intelligence gathered and edited by and relied upon by the Bush
Administration to persuade congress to endorse invading Iraq was grossly in
error.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you can accept that, we can move to the next step. If not,
then readers can draw their own conclusions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>W.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 5:50 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] ...but they will not testify under
oath inthematter</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Well Wayne, this is becoming embarrassing.
Perhaps you should hang it up, take a little nap and try again another
day.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For starters why would I consider any thing
from wikipedia to be the final word on anything? A site where the content
can be altered by pretty much anyone with an opinion, a point of
view, and some time on their hands (someone much like yourself) would
hardly be the most definitive source for anyone's "reality"
check.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Also considering that you, yourself, choose
this particular article, I think that it's extremely telling that nowhere in
the conclusions of the afore mentioned piece did the eight democrats and
seven republicans (Hagel & Snowe hardly count as republicans) find any
indication of wrong doing by the current administration. It should go
without saying that there is no mention of the actual topic we had been
discussing, Valerie Plame.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now that we are actually back to the original
topic at hand, allow me to reiterate. A janitor at the CIA is not a covert
operative. A security guard at the CIA is not a covert operative. An analyst
at the CIA is not a covert operative. After hearing Ms. Plame testify to
congress, seeing the piece in Vanity Fair, watching her on CNN's Larry
King, and listening to her idiot husband blowviate at length in various
forums, it seems likely to me that what Ms. Plame really did at the
agency was polish. Apples, brass, knobs, and her own reputation and sense of
self-worth, and only one of those things did she do covertly.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 4:25
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] ...but they
will not testify under oath inthematter</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Gary,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If you would like to get in touch with reality, you can start
here:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Report_of_Pre-war_Intelligence_on_Iraq">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senate_Report_of_Pre-war_Intelligence_on_Iraq</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>W.</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g.
crabtree</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 21, 2007 2:59 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] ...but they will not testify under
oath in thematter</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Wayne, you certainly are a hoot. it would
seem that when I post I must account for my every thought and opinion. I
must provide my source, make sure it's ideologically pure, and
include exact quotes in perfect context to support my every stray thought.
You, on the other hand, have free reign. For example:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Verdana>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana size=3>Was the outing of
Plame as payback for her husband correctly pointing out that the
administration's view of the Iraq/Africa nuclear connection was clearly
wrong, if not a deliberate lie, a fine, a honest, ethical act by the
administration or a despicably treacherous, if not
childish one? </FONT></DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><FONT face=Verdana
size=3></FONT> </DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Incorrect in so many different ways, not
the least of which would be your unique, bordering on superhuman ability
to look into the mind of another and deduce their motivations and
emotions. Also where are the appropriate series of cites and
complete quotes which would give this idiot paragraph so much as a
shred of veracity?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Its clear to me that you are falling back on
the fine old tactic of framing any discussion in your own terms, setting
up foolish parameters for others to meet (even when you, yourself don't)
and when they don't have the patience to indulge you in your silly game,
you crow of your 'victory' like a banty rooster and castigate your
opponent as being your lesser. Well here's a hot news flash for ya,
Florence, I'm not overly concerned with winning your respect. Quite the
contrary, should I ever suspect that I am in danger of
gaining it I will immediately rethink my positions as
I'm certain that I will have made a terrible mistake in my thinking
or lack thereof.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I consider this homework assignment complete
and the instructor a doddering ideologue. I assign myself a C- as its
hard to work up much enthusiasm to respond to an hidebound,
superannuated partisan hack.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P>
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