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<DIV>Debbie writes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"I don't understand why you all don't form your OWN
anti-christ church/anti-doug wilson/anti-whatever LISTSERV and leave this one to
its origins of discussing <STRONG>Moscow</STRONG> issues."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some people on this forum see some of the actions of Christ Church as a
Moscow issues: zoning, sexual abuse, spousal abuse, racism, sexism,
homophobia, theocracy, alleged evading of capital gains taxes, misleading or
lying at public hearings, effects of on recruitment both academic and athletic
at the UI, organizational dishonesty, and cultism. Some people on this
forum also see it as a county-wide forum, not just the exclusive domain of
certain Moscow users. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some older people on this forum, whose opinion apparently really doesn't
count, still remember learning about <STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff>"Eternal
vigilance is the price of liberty."</FONT></STRONG> Some old people on the
forum see those that ignore this bit of Jeffersonian wisdom as enablers.
For these ignorers/enablers, if the Sitler and Wight sexual predator cases, the
ways they were handled, and their nuances and ramifications for the community
did not act as a wake-up call, then probably nothing will.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some old people have not only read about, but have observed firsthand the
effects of cultism on individuals and communities in other places, hence are
more concerned. Unlike Misters Decker, Becker, et al, some people believe
that the some of the outré belief-inspired actions of the cult have damaged and
continue to damage the community. Some are concerned about the very active
recruitment to the community of others by Christ Church who share their outré
beliefs and would perpetuate the damaging actions by Christ Church which are
promulgated by such beliefs.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>For example, a letter to the <EM>Daily News</EM> detailing the cruel and
harmful effects on their child by Douglas Wilson's direct and indirect
actions with respect to gays is a chilling reminder of the effects of
homophobia. [I can repost this letter should some of you be unfamiliar
with it.] Some people find these kinds of discriminatory/hate
driven actions disturbing, wish to live in a community where this kind
of discrimination is greatly diminished, and therefore wish to promote a
community discussion on this and related issues. The same can said be for
the issues raised by the recent reposting of the Logos School's complete
original announcement of the banning of women from serving on the school's board
of directors. The same can be said of Wilson's delusional views on
antebellum slavery. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Wilson has a complete right to express and to argue for his views, however
badly they reflect on the community in the outside world. What would
reflect even worse for Moscow, in my opinion, is if such views were
not rigorously and openly opposed.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Some people do not think it proper to discuss others' religious
beliefs. The fact is that strongly held religious beliefs prompt
actions which have community impact, sometimes these impacts are toxic and
harmful to the general community health, welfare, and pursuit of
happiness. To these people who think religious discussions are not proper,
I urge you to read about the motives of the first European colonists in our
country, and whose European experiences gave birth to our Constitution.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Debbie further writes:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"Your Anti-Christ Church rhetoric and hate has
suffocated an otherwise helpful, informative, interesting, lively forum."
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Perhaps I am too old to see it otherwise, but Vision 2020 is still a
helpful, informative, interesting, lively forum. There have been many
local issues discussed. I know for a fact that some of the opinions
offered here have influenced officials of both city and county government as
well as some other organizations.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>There is no doubt a lot of writing about Christ Church and related issues
on V 2020 for reasons given above. There are also a lot of writings
about things that are not purely city issues; some of these issues are national
and global in size, but still in the long run the subjects of these issues will
affect Moscow.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>Repeating what Debbie wrote:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff>"I don't understand why you all don't form your OWN
anti-christ church/anti-doug wilson/anti-whatever LISTSERV and leave this one to
its origins of discussing Moscow issues."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I hope that even critics of those that write about Christ Church will find
the phrase "your OWN" offensive. Is there something that we do not
know? Are there some individuals who "own" Vision 2020, and therefore
have the right to tell those of us who are not among the "owners" what the
"real" Moscow issues are, and consequently what to write about?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>As has been mentioned many times before, once an unmoderated public forum
has been opened, only the very naive would expect it to be confined topic-wise
or rhetoric-wise. Public discourse bears fruit, in part, because of
this wide diversity. As a member of a number of forums, I find that Vision
2020 is superior in at least two ways: It has very little problems with
spam, and it has encouraged a great diversity of opinions on issues and of
styles of communication, <STRONG>some</STRONG> of which have promoted
constructive change in the community. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>With respect to the diversity of topics and rhetoric, some people are not
comfortable with this degree of freedom of expression. For such
people, the one or two seconds it takes to use the delete key remains a
reasonable option and does not deter the rest of us from reading (or not)
what others freely choose to post. For others that are exasperated by or
otherwise unable to handle the fruits of freedom of expression, there are ways
of blocking a particular poster. I have only blocked one person. It
is not that I wish to exclude his opinions, but I am tired of getting his
offline poison pen notes. Blocking him provides an option for now to
pursuing criminal complaints and/or civil actions.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If it is permitted, I'll tell you what bothers me about certain
posts: Some posters do not believe that it necessary to support with
information and argument the opinions they express. Of course they are
free to do this, but it does not reflect well on themselves nor the positions
they espouse.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box 9421<BR>Moscow, ID
83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(208) 882-7975<BR><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>----- Original Message -----
<DIV>From: "Debbie Gray" <<A
href="mailto:graylex@yahoo.com">graylex@yahoo.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>To: "kerry becker" <<A
href="mailto:kerrybecker6924@hotmail.com">kerrybecker6924@hotmail.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>Cc: <<A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A>></DIV>
<DIV>Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:11 PM</DIV>
<DIV>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] vision 2020 proposal</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>> Exactly. Christ Church isn't alone it its<BR>>
interpretations of the bible. I grew up in a<BR>> fundamentalist
bible-thumping born-again household and<BR>> heard this same stuff. I
understand that people oppose<BR>> these ideas and find them harmful. I don't
understand<BR>> the hate focused on one group. I don't agree with
most<BR>> of the things they teach but I don't agree with the<BR>>
catholics (also anti-gay, anti-abortion, etc etc), the<BR>> LDS Church (also
wanting to keep women in their<BR>> 'traditional role'); the Lutherans, the
Methodists and<BR>> any other flavor of "christian" belief. Where is
the<BR>> outcry that women can't be Elders in the LDS Church?<BR>> Where's
our female pope? Look at those Catholic<BR>> priests molesting children left
and right!<BR>> <BR>> I don't understand why you all don't form your
OWN<BR>> anti-christ church/anti-doug wilson/anti-whatever<BR>> LISTSERV
and leave this one to its origins of<BR>> discussing Moscow issues. Your
Anti-Christ Church<BR>> rhetoric and hate has suffocated an otherwise
helpful,<BR>> infornative, interesting, lively forum. Does anyone<BR>>
remember PRE-Tom Hansen/Jackie Woolf, etc? I do!!!<BR>> <BR>> Debbie
Gray<BR>> p.s. Tom, I am at home on my home computer (purchased<BR>> with
wages from the UI), do you want my home address?<BR>> Phone #? I hope you
like my IP address... i like how<BR>> the numbers make such a random pattern.
Do i need to<BR>> give a permission slip from my spouse or kids that
I<BR>> am not misusing my personal time? <BR>> <BR>> --- kerry becker
<<A
href="mailto:kerrybecker6924@hotmail.com">kerrybecker6924@hotmail.com</A>>
wrote:<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> ---------------------------------<BR>>
<BR>> The irony is that this stuff happens in many churches.<BR>> You
know what kind of heyday we could have if we had<BR>> a mole like J Ford in
the mormon church? Think about<BR>> it. Now there's some good
stuff. Maybe we could<BR>> start an "Outing Churches in Moscow"
blog? : )<BR>> <BR>> But seriously, there really ISNT a fine line
between<BR>> "dialogue" and "obsession." It's clear as day
which<BR>> is which and I believe that's what most are trying to<BR>>
eliminate in these postings.<BR>> <BR>> Reminds me of a quote;<BR>>
<BR>> "Great minds talk about great ideas; average minds<BR>> talk
about average ideas; small minds talk about other<BR>> people.--Anonymous
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>>
____________________________________________________________________________________<BR>>
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href="http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL">http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL</A><BR>>
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