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<DIV>
<DIV>Well Gary,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I can't speak for J Ford. And since you are, for whatever reasons,
unable or unwilling to comment upon the love and Christianly
compassion-filled essay by Greg Dickison at issue, perhaps you will be kind
enough to allow me to try to clarify the issue for others, and perhaps
there is a 1 in 1 million chance that it may influence your current
perspective just an Angstrom unit.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Your continued facade of being credulous and semi-literate is sometimes
amusing. However, since the subject we are now attempting to discuss
rationally concerns one issue which has caused even very moderate community
members (a group to which I do not belong) to eschew the <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000>Christ Church Cult</FONT></STRONG>, I will attempt to make clear
what is being said. In honor of and humoring your pretended semi-literacy,
the journey will be in small steps. Also, since my use of different
colors and sizes of fonts inconveniently discommodes you, and gives you an
angry, debilitating mental hernia, I will try not use that particular
piece of knowledge <FONT color=#ffaa66
size=6><STRONG>too</STRONG></FONT> unmercifully.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT size=5>I. Definitions of "credenda" and
"agenda"</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Since the article by Dickison appears in the aptly named Christ Church Cult
publication <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM> we need to be sure that we understand
the meaning of the words "credenda" and "agenda." Here are the
definitions:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
class=hw>Cre·den·dum</SPAN><BR></FONT></STRONG><I>n.</I> <I>pl.</I> <SPAN
class=shw>Credenda</SPAN>
<P>[L., fr. <I>credere</I> to believe.]<BR><I>(Theol.)</I> A thing to be
believed; an article of faith; -- distinguished from <I>agendum</I>, a practical
duty. </P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV onclick=ShowPronKey();><B><FONT color=#0000ff>a·gen·da</FONT></B></DIV>
<DIV style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 11pt"><I>noun</I> (<I>plural</I> <B>a·gen·das</B>)
</DIV>
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 border=0>
<TBODY>
<TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top>
<TD class=DEFINITION width=17><B>1. </B></TD>
<TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt"><B>list of things to do:
</B>a formal list of things to be done in a particular order, especially a
list of things to be discussed at a meeting </TD></TR>
<TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top>
<TD class=DEFINITION width=17><B>2. </B></TD>
<TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt"><B>matters needing
attention: </B>the various matters that somebody needs to deal with at a
given time
<LI><I>What’s your agenda for today?</I> </LI></TD></TR>
<TR style="PADDING-BOTTOM: 7.5pt" vAlign=top>
<TD class=DEFINITION width=17><B>3. </B></TD>
<TD class=DEFINITION style="PADDING-LEFT: 1pt"><B>somebody’s particular
motive: </B>an underlying personal viewpoint or bias
<LI><I>Of course she’s in favor, but then she has her own agenda.</I>
</LI></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In simple terms in the present context, an <STRONG>agenda</STRONG> is a
list of <STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>required* things</FONT> <FONT
color=#0000ff size=4>to be accomplished and required actions to be
taken</FONT> as a practical <FONT color=#ff0000>duty</FONT></STRONG><FONT
color=#000000> (duty = mandated behavior), </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>while a <STRONG>credenda</STRONG> is a list of the <STRONG><FONT
color=#0000ff size=4>articles of faith motivating, mandating, and
justifying</FONT> </STRONG>the<STRONG> agenda</STRONG>.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#0000ff size=4>*</FONT></STRONG>The use of the word
"required" in this context will become apparent in the next section, but it
means that X is required basically because some alleged God allegedly said
so.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG>II. Application of the Definitions
to Christ Church Cult Dicta</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Once again information about <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM> can be found from the
source at:</DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.credenda.org/about.php">http://www.credenda.org/about.php</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So that there can be no doubt about whose <STRONG>credenda </STRONG>and
whose <STRONG>agenda</STRONG> we are speaking about, here from the website are
the cast of characters, etc:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>Editor: Douglas Wilson<BR>Senior Editor:
Douglas Jones<BR>Managing Editor: Nathan Wilson<BR>Contributing Editors:Chris
Schlect, Ben Merkle, Gary Hagen, Peter Leithart, Patch Blakey, Joost Nixon,
Gregory C. Dickison, and Pablo MacArthur.</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<P><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>Credenda Agenda is a bimonthly periodical
exploring all areas of life from a biblical, classical Protestant
perspective.</STRONG></FONT> </P>
<P>Please be kind enough to notice that the list includes Christ Church Cult
Cultmaster Douglas Wilson himself positioned at the top, his sometimes ghost
writer and dirty work executor, Douglas Jones, and the cult heir-apparent,
Nathan Wilson, the son of the Cultmaster.</P>
<P>If you scroll down the<EM> Credenda/</EM>Agenda webpage referenced above, you
will find the following:</P>
<P><FONT color=#0000ff>"Our brief </FONT><A
href="http://www.credenda.org/statement_of_faith.php"><FONT
color=#ff00ff>statement of faith</FONT></A><FONT color=#0000ff> is available,
although we are in essential agreement with the confessional statements of
classical Protestantism. The statement describes our doctrinal editorial
policy..."</FONT></P></DIV>
<DIV>Now, if you click on <A
href="http://www.credenda.org/statement_of_faith.php"><FONT
color=#ff00ff>statement of faith</FONT></A><FONT color=#0000ff> </FONT><FONT
color=#000000>and read down through the material, you will find the following,
which gets to the essential core of the issue:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><EM>"We believe</EM> the Bible to be the only inerrant
Word of God. </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000><STRONG>It is our only ultimate and
infallible authority for faith and <FONT
size=5>practice</FONT>."</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In other words, if you will kindly permit, the source of
the <STRONG>credenda</STRONG> or "authority" for the articles of faith is
"the ultimate and infallible" "inerrant" "Word of God," the Bible."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The <STRONG>agenda</STRONG> or practices <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000>required </FONT></STRONG>to be followed and actions
<STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>required </FONT></STRONG>to be accomplished are
those practices/actions proscribed by "the ultimate and infallible", "inerrant"
"Word of God," "the Bible."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hence, <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM> contains the dicta of the Christ Church
Cult according to their interpretation of some writings(the Bible) that
allegedly comes from some alleged God. It is a <STRONG><FONT size=4>list
of actions that must be taken</FONT></STRONG> and the <STRONG><FONT
size=4>unchallengeable motivation, justification, and mandate (from their
alleged God) for those required actions</FONT></STRONG>. From the stand
point of the Cultmaster, <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM> is not a joke or comic book or
light entertainment reading. It is a <STRONG>most serious work</STRONG>
from the standpoint of and produced by the cult highest hierarchy and
contains the statement of faith and proscription of <STRONG><FONT
size=4>required</FONT></STRONG> actions derived from that faith.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=5><STRONG>III.
Application</STRONG></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>1. The article by Greg Dickison (reproduced below) is
found in <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM>.</DIV>
<DIV> <A
href="http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm">http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>2. Hence, the <STRONG>agenda</STRONG>
items found in the article are claimed to be supported by the
Bible (the source of the <STRONG>Credenda</STRONG>).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>3. The particular <STRONG>agenda</STRONG> items
mandated by Dickison's essay are a <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>list of
required things to be accomplished and required actions to be
taken</FONT></STRONG> according to the <STRONG>credenda</STRONG>, derived,
motivated, justified, and <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>mandated</FONT></STRONG>
by the allegedly ultimate, inerrant, infallible Word of some alleged God.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>4. Among <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>the list
of required things to be accomplished and required actions to be
taken</FONT></STRONG>, the <STRONG>agenda</STRONG>, are
<STRONG>execution</STRONG> of those committing "capital crimes."</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>5. These capital crimes for which <STRONG>execution is
mandatory</STRONG> crimes include:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> premeditated killing (murder), </DIV>
<DIV> kidnapping, </DIV>
<DIV> sorcery, </DIV>
<DIV> bestiality, </DIV>
<DIV> adultery, </DIV>
<DIV> homosexuality, </DIV>
<DIV> cursing one's parents, and</DIV>
<DIV> heresy. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>6. To add a nice touch of Christian compassion and
infinitely delicious godly love to it all, the alleged totally wonderful
God, according to Dickison, allegedly condemns and, in fact, forbids any pity to
be felt for any of the above offenders before, during, and after their
execution. Feeling pity in such cases is itself a sin, and is a sure
sign the person pitying is not with the program, and is thus way,
way out of sync with Dickison's/Wilson's alleged God.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In case there were too many words used above: 1 - 6 is a summary
for what the Christ Church Cult believes is a subset of a <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000>list of required things to be accomplished and required
actions taken,</FONT></STRONG> their <STRONG>agenda</STRONG>, according to their
<STRONG>credenda</STRONG> as derived, justified, and mandated from their
interpretation of the Bible, which is the allegedly ultimate, inerrant,
infallible Word of their alleged God.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Gary, follow closely now:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>A. Cultmaster Douglas Wilson is not only the head of the
Christ Church Cult, but also the Editor-in-Chief of <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM>,
the house organ stating, explaining, and promulgating cult dicta<EM>.</EM></DIV>
<DIV><EM></EM> </DIV>
<DIV>B.<EM> </EM>Therefore, when dicta, regardless of the
author, of the Christ Church Cult appears in <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM>, it
is the voice of Cultmaster and Editor-in Chief Douglas Wilson speaking for and
on behalf of his alleged God.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>C. Therefore, when Greg Dickison is permitted by the
Cultmaster, acting as the Editor-in-Chief, to include, for example, mandating
the execution of children who curse their parents as part of the <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000>list of required things to be accomplished and required
actions to be taken,</FONT></STRONG> as part of the <STRONG>agenda</STRONG> of
the Christ Church Cult, it has the same import as would be if the Cultmaster
himself had written or spoken the words. <STRONG>Agenda </STRONG>items are
derived from the Bible and mandated and justified (the
<STRONG>credenda</STRONG>) by the same, which is the allegedly ultimate,
inerrant, infallible Word of Wilson's alleged God and not subject to
challenge, change, or change of Wilson's interpretation.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hence, when J Ford said of Cultmaster Douglas Wilson:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>"He'll kill a child that disobeys his parent,
he'll kill any gay just because they are gay,"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>what J Ford perhaps she meant to say is:</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=2>"He'd order or sanction the of killing a child
that disobeys his parent; he'd order or sanction the killing of any gay just
because they are gay."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>If that is the case, then J Ford is only paraphrasing what
Cultmaster Wilson himself affirms as being his immutable, unchallengeable belief
in <EM>Credenda/Agenda</EM>, the <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>list of required
things to be accomplished and required actions to be taken,</FONT></STRONG>
the <STRONG>agenda, </STRONG>justified and mandated
by the<STRONG> credenda,</STRONG> as derived from the Bible, which is
the allegedly ultimate, inerrant, infallible Word of Wilson's alleged
God.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Of course, Wilson and his followers/devotees/toadies cannot get away
legally with most of their <STRONG>agenda</STRONG> items currently. But
other writings, speeches, and sermons show they are vigorously working
to bring about a theocracy where they can implement their wonderfully loving,
forgiving, and most Christianly compassionate <STRONG>agenda</STRONG>.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR>Wayne A. Fox<BR>1009 Karen Lane<BR>PO Box 9421<BR>Moscow, ID
83843</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>(208) 882-7975<BR><A
href="mailto:waf@moscow.com">waf@moscow.com</A><BR></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm">http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>
<H2><I>Magistralis</I></H2>
<P></P>
<P></P>
<H3>Your Eye Shall Not Pity</H3>
<H4><I>Greg Dickison</I></H4><IMG
src="http://www.credenda.org/old/images/feather.gif">
<P><IMG alt=T src="http://www.credenda.org/old/images/t.gif" align=left> </P>
<P>he civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the wrongdoer
(Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without guidance on how to
exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of judgment for
many offenses. <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Capital crimes, for example, include
premeditated killing (murder), kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery,
homosexuality, and cursing one's parents</FONT></STRONG> (Ex. 21:14; 21:16;
22:18; 22:19; Lev. 20:10; 20:13; Ex. 21:17). </P>
<P>In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is punishable
by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The magistrates have
dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some Christians believe this is an
improvement. They would be horrified to think that the "harsh" penalties of the
law should still be applied. Sometimes this is the result of the mistaken belief
that the Old Testament has no further application after the advent of Christ.
This is an exegetical problem. Too often, it is the result of a sinful view of
the criminal. This sin is called pity. </P>
<P>Pity is a compassionate and sympathetic response to another's distress. It
manifests itself by some action deemed to be beneficent to the one who is the
object of the pity. It is characterized by the thought, "There, but for the
grace of God, go I." So what is wrong with that? Why is pity a sin? </P>
<P>First, pity is not <I>always</I> a sin. But neither is it always good. The
Bible teaches that the moral character of pity depends on the context in which
it is exercised. </P>
<P><I>He who has pity on the poor lends to the Lord, and He will pay back what
he has given</I> (Prov. 19:17). Pity toward the poor is good. David was
condemned by God when he did <I>not</I> take pity on Uriah, a poor man (2 Sam.
12:110). David sought pity when he was under the reproach of his enemies (Ps.
69:20). It would have been a comfort to him in his adversity. If God had not
taken pity on His people, we would all be lost in our sins (Is. 63:9). </P>
<P>There are also examples of God's refusal to have pity, as when Jerusalem
defiled His sanctuary (Ez. 5:11). Likewise, God included in the law specific
prohibitions against the exercise of pity in meting out punishment. </P>
<P></P>
<P><I><STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>If your brother, the son of your mother, your
son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own
soul, secretly entices you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you
shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor
shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill
him</FONT></STRONG> . . .</I> (Deut. 13:69). </P>
<P></P>
<P><I>But if anyone hates his neighbor, lies in wait for him, rises against him
and strikes him mortally, so that he dies, and he flees to one of these cities,
then the elders of his city shall send and bring him from there, and deliver him
over to the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Your eye shall not
pity him, but you shall put away the guilt of innocent blood from Israel, that
it may go well with you</I> (Deut. 19:1113). </P>
<P></P>
<P><I>If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of
wrongdoing, then both men in the controversy shall stand before the Lord, before
the priests and the judges who serve in those days. And the judges shall make
diligent inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness, who has
testified falsely against his brother, then you shall do to him as he thought to
have done to his brother, so you shall put away the evil person from among you.
Your eye shall not pity . . .</I> (Deut. 19.1619, 21). </P>
<P></P>
<P><I>If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her
husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand and seizes
him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall not pity
her</I> (Deut. 25:11, 12). </P>
<P></P>
<P>The tendency of modern American law is to look at whether the particular
<I>criminal</I> deserves the penalty involved. Witnesses are brought in (usually
the defendant's mother) to say that Johnny is really a good boy who just got in
with the wrong crowd and deserves another chance. Or the judge considers whether
the accused is sorry for what he did. Those who side with the victim can go to
the other extreme; the prosecutor is allowed to bring in witnesses to testify to
what a great guy the victim was, or to the impact of the crime on the victim's
family. Justice becomes a contest to see which side can generate the most pity.
</P>
<P>God commands the judge to evaluate the <I>crime</I> rather than the criminal.
If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be the
punishment. Your eye <I>shall not pity</I>. Neither is the repentance of the
accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence. When it was discovered that
Achan had kept some of the spoil of Jericho, Joshua beseeched him to repent.
<I>And Achan answered Joshua and said, `Indeed, I have sinned against the Lord
God of Israel, and this is what I have done . . .</I> (Josh. 7:19-20). After
Achan confessed, he was still stoned to death. </P>
<P>Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has decided the
matter. The magistrate, God's minister, is to faithfully execute justice
according to God's standard, not man's. </P>
<P>What the Bible does <I>not</I> teach is that the preaching of the gospel and
repentance have no place on death row. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a place
where there is a more immediate need of grace, and a presentation of the gospel
should be the first response of Christians to those who are condemned. But
condemnation still must come if we are to be obedient to God's Word. We must
respond to the wrongdoer biblically in both judgment and grace. </P>
<P>This means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within the
bounds which God has established for us. </P>
<P><BR><BR></P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J Ford</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:10 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Wilson's Excuses</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>All righty then, here's your chance to turn me to
the dim side. Provide for me a cite in which "Doug hiself"
declares:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"I'll (He'll) kill a child that disobeys his
parent, I'll(he'll) kill any gay just because they are gay"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't want to hear where you infer this from
something he or someone else says. I don't want your subjective paraphrase, I
want the exact quote verbatim, in context, just the way you spewed it. (or as
close as your fevered little mind can come) </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>With several hundred occasions I'm guessing that this will be a walk in
the park for you. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>On the faint chance you can't manage to provide me
with the proof that you claim abounds, how about you give it a rest for a
while?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV></DIV>
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