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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I am only too well aware of what the lists resident
lunatic is ranting about.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2> A computer melt down just about a year
ago deprives me of my sent items file but, if memory serves me, what I
actually said regarding the article you reference was that I wouldn't comment on
it till I had an opportunity to speak with folks a little closer to the
source. No promise to report back, I don't do homework assignments.
Sorry.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art Deco</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 16, 2007 4:30
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Wilson's
Excuses</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV>Below is what JFord was referring to. Or have you forgotten your
written intention to get back to the list after your investigation of this
gem?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>W.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><A
href="http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm">http://www.credenda.org/old/issues/vol3/magi3-9.htm</A></DIV>
<DIV>
<H2><I>Magistralis</I></H2>
<P></P>
<P></P>
<H3>Your Eye Shall Not Pity</H3>
<H4><I>Greg Dickison</I></H4><IMG
src="http://www.credenda.org/old/images/feather.gif">
<P><IMG alt=T src="http://www.credenda.org/old/images/t.gif" align=left> </P>
<P>he civil magistrate is the minister of God to execute wrath on the
wrongdoer (Rom. 13:4). God has not left his civil minister without guidance on
how to exercise his office. The Scriptures set forth clear standards of
judgment for many offenses. <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0000>Capital
crimes</FONT></STRONG>, for example, include premeditated killing (murder),
kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality, and <STRONG><FONT
color=#ff0000>cursing one's parents</FONT></STRONG> (Ex. 21:14; 21:16; 22:18;
22:19; Lev. 20:10; 20:13; Ex. 21:17). </P>
<P>In contemporary American jurisprudence, none of these offenses is
punishable by death, with the occasional exception of murder. The magistrates
have dispensed with God's standards of justice. Some Christians believe this
is an improvement. They would be horrified to think that the "harsh" penalties
of the law should still be applied. Sometimes this is the result of the
mistaken belief that the Old Testament has no further application after the
advent of Christ. This is an exegetical problem. Too often, it is the result
of a sinful view of the criminal. This sin is called pity. </P>
<P>Pity is a compassionate and sympathetic response to another's distress. It
manifests itself by some action deemed to be beneficent to the one who is the
object of the pity. It is characterized by the thought, "There, but for the
grace of God, go I." So what is wrong with that? Why is pity a sin? </P>
<P>First, pity is not <I>always</I> a sin. But neither is it always good. The
Bible teaches that the moral character of pity depends on the context in which
it is exercised. </P>
<P><I>He who has pity on the poor lends to the Lord, and He will pay back what
he has given</I> (Prov. 19:17). Pity toward the poor is good. David was
condemned by God when he did <I>not</I> take pity on Uriah, a poor man (2 Sam.
12:110). David sought pity when he was under the reproach of his enemies (Ps.
69:20). It would have been a comfort to him in his adversity. If God had not
taken pity on His people, we would all be lost in our sins (Is. 63:9). </P>
<P>There are also examples of God's refusal to have pity, as when Jerusalem
defiled His sanctuary (Ez. 5:11). Likewise, God included in the law specific
prohibitions against the exercise of pity in meting out punishment. </P>
<P></P>
<P><I>If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the
wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices
you, saying, "Let us go and serve other gods,". . . you shall not consent to
him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or
conceal him; but you shall surely kill him . . .</I> (Deut. 13:69). </P>
<P></P>
<P><I>But if anyone hates his neighbor, lies in wait for him, rises against
him and strikes him mortally, so that he dies, and he flees to one of these
cities, then the elders of his city shall send and bring him from there, and
deliver him over to the hand of the avenger of blood, that he may die. Your
eye shall not pity him, but you shall put away the guilt of innocent blood
from Israel, that it may go well with you</I> (Deut. 19:1113). </P>
<P></P>
<P><I>If a false witness rises against any man to testify against him of
wrongdoing, then both men in the controversy shall stand before the Lord,
before the priests and the judges who serve in those days. And the judges
shall make diligent inquiry, and indeed, if the witness is a false witness,
who has testified falsely against his brother, then you shall do to him as he
thought to have done to his brother, so you shall put away the evil person
from among you. Your eye shall not pity . . .</I> (Deut. 19.1619, 21). </P>
<P></P>
<P><I>If two men fight together, and the wife of one draws near to rescue her
husband from the hand of the one attacking him, and puts out the hand and
seizes him by the genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; your eye shall
not pity her</I> (Deut. 25:11, 12). </P>
<P></P>
<P>The tendency of modern American law is to look at whether the particular
<I>criminal</I> deserves the penalty involved. Witnesses are brought in
(usually the defendant's mother) to say that Johnny is really a good boy who
just got in with the wrong crowd and deserves another chance. Or the judge
considers whether the accused is sorry for what he did. Those who side with
the victim can go to the other extreme; the prosecutor is allowed to bring in
witnesses to testify to what a great guy the victim was, or to the impact of
the crime on the victim's family. Justice becomes a contest to see which side
can generate the most pity. </P>
<P>God commands the judge to evaluate the <I>crime</I> rather than the
criminal. If the crime is one for which God requires death, then death must be
the punishment. Your eye <I>shall not pity</I>. Neither is the repentance of
the accused relevant to the imposition of the sentence. When it was discovered
that Achan had kept some of the spoil of Jericho, Joshua beseeched him to
repent. <I>And Achan answered Joshua and said, `Indeed, I have sinned against
the Lord God of Israel, and this is what I have done . . .</I> (Josh.
7:19-20). After Achan confessed, he was still stoned to death. </P>
<P>Thus, the Bible teaches that pity is not an option where God has decided
the matter. The magistrate, God's minister, is to faithfully execute justice
according to God's standard, not man's. </P>
<P>What the Bible does <I>not</I> teach is that the preaching of the gospel
and repentance have no place on death row. Indeed, it is hard to imagine a
place where there is a more immediate need of grace, and a presentation of the
gospel should be the first response of Christians to those who are condemned.
But condemnation still must come if we are to be obedient to God's Word. We
must respond to the wrongdoer biblically in both judgment and grace. </P>
<P>This means that we must return to an obedience which confines pity within
the bounds which God has established for us. </P></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=jampot@adelphia.net href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net">g. crabtree</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=privatejf32@hotmail.com
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com">J Ford</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 16, 2007 3:46 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Wilson's Excuses</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"He'll kill a child that disobeys his parent,
<BR>he'll kill any gay just because they are gay"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Get a grip on yourself. This is over the top,
even by the standards that you have previously set. The term slander gets
tossed about pretty freely on this forum (even when they really mean libel)
but there is no question that you are crossing a line with these kinds of
ridicules and baseless comments. Please just stop.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>g</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "J Ford" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:privatejf32@hotmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>privatejf32@hotmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 1:46
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: [Vision2020] Wilson's
Excuses</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> During that same "talk" Wilson said he has "welcomed back into the
church <BR>> fold, those young men". What does this mean? The
children victims and <BR>> their families, of Sitler and Jamin get to look
at his ugly mug no matter <BR>> what function, or service, or gathering is
going on. Wilson REFUSED to <BR>> admit or confirm that Sitler or
Jamin would ever be banned from any of the <BR>> above, only that they
would be monitored. And remember that just because <BR>> Jamin had
his charge reduced (ostensibly because the victim had "consented" <BR>> to
Jamin's sexual attention) does not mean that what he did was any less <BR>>
severe an act of child molestation than what Sitler did to his victims.
<BR>> Court technicalities do NOT negate the seriousness of the crime, just
the <BR>> perception of the legal system that they are "winning" a
case. And as far <BR>> as "Let's Make A Deal Monty" Thompson is
concerned, that's better looking <BR>> than a check in the "maybe could
win" column any day. He did not want to <BR>> take the chance of the
child being up on the stand and explaining to the <BR>> jury that she
wanted and invited Jamin's attentions as he felt that would <BR>> hurt his
case. The only thing it hurts is Jamin and the child - WHO KNEW <BR>>
THAT CHILD WAS NOT CAPABLE OF MAKING THAT KIND OF RATIONAL DECISION, but he
<BR>> went with his sickly-man instincts and did it anyway - repeatedly
over a <BR>> very long period of time. There is NO distinction
between Sitler hurting <BR>> 100(+) victims and Jamin hurting one or two
victims...once done, it can not <BR>> be undone and the damage is far
reaching into that child's life and future. <BR>> Yet, Wilson will
allow both of these creeps back into the church, back into <BR>> the fold,
back into the activities (do not be fooled by his saying "they <BR>> will
monitored" - just how is Wilson going to do that unless those creeps <BR>>
are chained to someone else?) If I were a parent of a child victim of
<BR>> either of these molesters, and a member of that church, I would be
doing <BR>> some serious thinking about continuing the membership at such a
church as <BR>> well as the continued "non-pastorship" of Doug
Wilson. This is a man who <BR>> has receive ZERO training in
pastoring as well ZERO training or education in <BR>> the treatment of
child molesters.<BR>> <BR>> And let there be NO doubt about it - Sitler
and Jamin are CHILD <BR>> MOLESTERS!!!! And they will repeat their
crimes because they simply do not <BR>> wish to change. They may calm
down, may even go dormant for a while - but <BR>> they WILL strike
again. Anyone willing to sacrifice their child for the <BR>>
ego-growth of their non-pastor? Every time Sitler and Jamin are anywhere
<BR>> near a child, that is EXACTLY what you are doing.<BR>> <BR>> Oh
and lets not forget the lame-assed reasoning of Wilson that he has <BR>>
received their confessions and has forgiven them their crimes, because
<BR>> that's the business he is in. He'll kill a child that disobeys
his parent, <BR>> he'll kill any gay just because they are gay, he'll call
people he does not <BR>> even know his enemy just because they don't agree
with him - but Sitler and <BR>> Jamin, he'll forgive for ruining the lives
of innocents! Like he's in any <BR>> position to do either!<BR>>
<BR>> How about the children victims of those two? Both men are
supposed to be <BR>> paying restitution to those victims. Court
papers show both are BEHIND in <BR>> doing that. Of course, the CC
will hire Sitler when he gets out just as <BR>> they have done with
Jamin. How else are they going to make the money <BR>> necessary to
pay this debt? Well, and now Jamin has two moving violations <BR>> he
has to pay for. TWO, in less than two weeks out of jail, Jamin gets into
<BR>> trouble - Great start, Jamin. Can't even keep you nose clean
long enough to <BR>> travel safely on the very streets children live
on!<BR>> <BR>> This is the type of monitoring Wilson will be
doing? Parents - KNOW WHERE <BR>> YOUR KIDS ARE AND WHO THEY ARE
TALKING TO!<BR>> <BR>> <BR>> J :]<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>>From: "Art Deco" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>>To:
"Vision 2020" <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Gooooooooood Morning, Moscow,
Idaho<BR>>>Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2007 09:47:28
-0800<BR>>><BR>>>Tom quotes Cultmaster Douglas
Wilson:<BR>>><BR>>>"I'll just speak for our church, in Christ
Church [sic]. If I found out <BR>>>that a member of our
church or a church officer was lying to non-believers <BR>>>in the
community, as a way to get by or protect themself [sic] or protect
<BR>>>his reputation, yes, he'd be
disciplined."<BR>>><BR>>>This is a very curious statement by the
Cultmaster. Even if it is <BR>>>believed, as improbable as it is
given clear and cogent evidence to the <BR>>>contrary, there are some
revealing omissions of several different <BR>>>categories of lying that
are covered by Wilson's statement.<BR>>><BR>>>Would someone be
disciplined if they lied to:<BR>>><BR>>>1.
Protect the Wilson & Family's Christless Cult & Cash Machine -- (You
<BR>>>must tolerate us since we do not tolerate anyone
else)?<BR>>>2. Protect Doug
Wilson?<BR>>>3. Protect any of the upper echelon of
the cult or their wives/children?<BR>>>4. Obstruct
justice by reporting all crimes, no matter how serious, and
<BR>>>especially crimes of child sexual abuse, through the cult ward
system, and <BR>>>thus to the Cultmaster, instead of and/or before
reporting them to the <BR>>>proper law enforcement
agencies?<BR>>>5. Does the claim of imposed discipline
apply to the lies of the <BR>>>Cultmaster himself? Who would
discipline him? The gutless elders, almost <BR>>>all of whom are
economically dependent on Cultmaster Wilson? Yeah,
right.<BR>>>Etc, etc.<BR>>><BR>>>None of these above acts of
falsehood are included in the list of <BR>>>impermissible lies upon
closer examination of Wilson's artful statement.<BR>>><BR>>>And
what does "disciplined" mean?<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>For the
innocents: This statement and the dog and pony shoe from which it
<BR>>>was quoted is another example of how a skilled confidence
trickster <BR>>>operates. A statement is made that seems very
open-faced and sincere to <BR>>>those with relaxed, undeveloped, or
rusty crap-detectors. But after closer <BR>>>examination, the
statement is found to be not so open-faced, but deceptive, <BR>>>and
certainly not believable.<BR>>><BR>>>Other example of this kind of
confidence trickster's dishonesty was <BR>>>Wilson's statement that
sexual predator/serial child sexual abuser and New <BR>>>Saint Andrews
student James Sitler was not a member of Christ Church. In
<BR>>>some technical way, despite being away from his home church in
Colville, <BR>>>Washington, for a long period, it was claimed he was a
member there. <BR>>>However, here's the truth: Sitler
attended Christ Church services the <BR>>>entire time he was here
attending New Saint Andrews, a Christ Church <BR>>>adjunct. Sitler
was also boarded by a Christ Church member family whom he <BR>>>rewarded
for their graciousness by sexually debauching their young children
<BR>>>multiple times.<BR>>><BR>>>Hence, the truth is that
James Sitler committed his heinous acts of <BR>>>depravity while under
the auspices of Christ Church and its affiliate, New <BR>>>Saint
Andrews. Sitler continued to engage in this egregious preying upon
<BR>>>young victims even though several New Saint Andrews students found
his <BR>>>obsession with children to be very troubling and perhaps
pathological. The <BR>>>thoughtful reader will also see a
connection between point 4 above and the <BR>>>Sitler case. The
thoughtful reader may also wonder when Cultmaster Wilson <BR>>>first
learned about the probabilities concerning Sitler's sexual
<BR>>>proclivities -- before or after his matriculation at New Saint
Andrews.<BR>>><BR>>>Art Deco (Wayne A.
Fox)<BR>>>deco@moscow.com<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>>>-----
Original Message -----<BR>>>From: "Tom Hansen" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:thansen@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>thansen@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>>To: "Vision 2020" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>>Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 6:02
AM<BR>>>Subject: [Vision2020] Gooooooooood Morning, Moscow,
Idaho<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>> > "I'll just speak for our
church, in Christ Church. If I found out that <BR>>>a<BR>>>
> member of our church or a church officer was lying to non-believers in
<BR>>>the<BR>>> > community, as a way to get by or protect
themself or protect his <BR>>>reputation,<BR>>> > yes, he'd be
disciplined."<BR>>> ><BR>>> > - Doug Wilson (January 31,
2007)<BR>>> > </FONT><A
href="http://www.tomandrodna.com/Sounds/Doug_Wilson_Liers_013107.mp3"><FONT
face=Arial
size=2>http://www.tomandrodna.com/Sounds/Doug_Wilson_Liers_013107.mp3</FONT></A><BR><FONT
face=Arial size=2>>> ><BR>>> > Stay tuned,
Moscow.<BR>>> ><BR>>> > Tom Hansen<BR>>> > Moscow,
Idaho<BR>>> ><BR>>> >
******************************************<BR>>> ><BR>>> >
"People walking up to you<BR>>> > Singing glory
hallelujah<BR>>> > And they're trying to sock it to you<BR>>>
> In the name of the Lord."<BR>>> ><BR>>> > - Joe South
(from "Games People Play")<BR>>> ><BR>>> >
******************************************<BR>>> ><BR>>>
><BR>>> >
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