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As a programmer, I can't help but look at the issue of "shifting
pollution somewhere else" in terms of reusable programming code. It's
analogous to moving logic from many different functions into a central
library of code. If that central library of code is written badly,
then you don't get any benefit right away and might even see your
program slow down. However, refactoring one function can now help in
many different places immediately.<br>
<br>
This is also true for the electric car. Yes, it shifts the burden from
efficient gasoline engines to inefficient coal-powered plants and
inefficient electric engines and batteries. However, replace one of
those coal plants with a modern nuclear reactor or a solar or wind
farm, and you've just helped the whole equation measurably with just
one change.<br>
<br>
We're going from a known bad in multiple places (gasoline-powered
personal vehicles) to a known bad in a much smaller list of central
places. This can only help in the future. I'm also optimistic that
the scientists and engineers will design more efficient electric cars
and power-containment technology as the demand increases.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Ted Moffett wrote:
<blockquote
cite="midd03f69e0702051329j12fbb5b6of20e59dc7c9daeb0@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div> </div>
<div>All-</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I'm not defending the oil/auto industry in these comments
regarding how they have approached electric vehicles, but electric
battery powered cars/light trucks are not realistically a large scale
solution to US transportation needs at the current time, if they ever
will be.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The electric car can lessen pollution in vehicle dense urban
areas, but to a large degree would shift the pollution generated by the
electrical generation to power the cars, somewhere else. The US
derives about 50% of its electricity from coal fired plants, linked to
creating respiratory ailments and exacerbating respiratory disease,
along with dumping dangerous mercury pollution and massive amounts of
CO2. If the US shifted to far more electric/battery car use, the
electrical power demands to charge these vehicles would force more
output from coal fired electrical generation plants, thus more
pollution, given current coal fired plants pollution control
technology. The US now in some areas already faces rolling blackouts
during peak electricity use periods due to demand exceeding safe system
capacity.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hopefully, given that the US has the largest coal reserves of
any nation on Earth, and the almost impossible to stop demands for
incredible amounts of cheap (coal electricity is cheap) energy to run
our economy and technology, future coal fired plants can reduce all
forms of pollution, including CO2 output, via CO2 sequestration
technology. Then electric cars charged via coal derived energy might
truly be "non-polluting," and not contribute to global warming.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Electric cars/trucks to be a realistic long term solution need
to be recharged off sustainable (coal will deplete) non-polluting
energy: solar, wind, nuclear fission (I know this suggestion will raise
eye brows), the dream of practical nuclear fusion, etc. There is not
now even a fraction of the generating capacity from these sources to
power a mostly electric nation wide fleet of cars/light trucks, that
most consumers drive.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Of course, we hear often about fuel cell vehicles, a kind of
electric car, that does not require charging batteries to power the
cars motor, given that the fuel cell generates the electricity on
board, but there are still serious problems with what fuel source can
economically power a nationwide fleet of fuel cells vehicles. We hear
a lot about hydrogen to power fuel cells, or even to power an internal
combustion engine directly, but this fuel takes a lot of energy to
produce in the first place, like in electrolysis from water. Fuel
cells can run on fossil or possibly some biofuels, but fossil fuels
will deplete, and biofuels are very questionable as a large scale
solution to energy demands for a number of reasons.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>It is easy to forget the incredible amounts of convenient
portable inexpensive energy contained in the gasoline/diesel powering
cars and trucks, and tempting to think that there are practical and
affordable options to this form of energy, if if were not for the
sinister manipulations of the oil and auto industry and the short term
greed of Wall Street. I don't deny they are sinister, and have
manipulated to stop or slow the implementation of alternative energy
solutions to the fossil fuel powered car/light truck that most people
drive, or to block more reliance on public transport to reduce the need
for most all to drive cars and trucks. But there are serious
technological and economic problems with replacing fossil
fueled vehicles, given our current short term profit oriented economy,
lifestyle and huge consumption of energy.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Here is an interesting and apparently well informed discussion
on electrical energy generation and the problems with fossil fuel
depletion and global warming. I will offer one quote that bodes well
for wind energy to power electric cars:
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.ieer.org/latest/ourelectricfuture.html">http://www.ieer.org/latest/ourelectricfuture.html</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>"There is no shortage of energy sources that have no or low CO2
emissions. The potential for wind-generated electricity in the 12
states down the spine of the United States (North Dakota to Texas,
including Midwestern and Rocky Mountain states) is equal to
two-and-a-half times the entire electricity generation of the United
States.
<p>Put another way, the energy potential there is roughly the same as
the oil output of all the members of the Organization of Petroleum
Exporting Countries (OPEC)." </p>
<p>-------------------</p>
<p>Ted Moffett</p>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 2/5/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Ellen
Roskovich</b> <<a href="mailto:gussie443@hotmail.com">gussie443@hotmail.com</a>>
wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div>
<p><strong>I definately recommend viewing this documentary. I saw
it downtown when it played here a few months back. For some reason it,
the documentary, seems to be getting as much attention as the electric
car did. Too bad. But now that it's out on DVD maybe more people will
see it. . . . I know I told all my friends about it after I saw the
movie. Now I'll tell them to go get the DVD. Glad Bill brought the
subject up.
</strong></p>
<p><strong>Ellen Roskovich</strong><br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(160, 198, 229); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px; margin-right: 0px;"><font
style="font-size: 11px; font-family: tahoma,sans-serif;">
<hr color="#a0c6e5" size="1">From: <i>"Kai Eiselein, editor" <<a
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:editor@lataheagle.com" target="_blank">editor@lataheagle.com</a>></i><br>
To: <i>"Bill London" <
<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:london@moscow.com" target="_blank">london@moscow.com</a>>,
<<a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">
vision2020@moscow.com</a>></i><br>
Subject: <i>Re: [Vision2020] who killed the electric car?</i><br>
Date: <i>Mon, 5 Feb 2007 10:38:50 -0800</i>
<div><span class="e" id="q_110938604eb4670e_1"><br>
<br>
<div><span><font color="#0000ff" face="Arial" size="2">NPR had a
segment on this last summer. as well.</font></span></div>
<blockquote>
<div align="left" dir="ltr"><font face="Tahoma" size="2">-----Original
Message-----<br>
<b>From:</b> <a
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com
</a> [mailto:<a
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Bill London<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, February 05, 2007 10:29 AM
<br>
<b>To:</b> <a
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Vision2020] who killed the electric car?<br>
<br>
</font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">A decade ago, California
decided to get serious about smog and required car manufacturers to
create zero-emission cars. The auto makers did build electric cars for
sale in that state. Then by creatively undermining public support for
the cars and reversing the state mandate, they killed the electric
car. Literally. Even though hundreds of customers begged the
companies to sell them an electric car, the auto makers refused (the
cars were only leased, not sold). And then the leases were ended, and
the cars were actually crushed and recycled.
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Though it sounds like a
paranoid fantasy, it's all there in the</font><font face="Arial"
size="2"> recent documentary, "Who Killed the Electric Car?" I saw it
on DVD. It is a great summary and a strong indictment of the
short-sighted oil/auto industry that could only see that big cars equal
big profits.
</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">GM and Ford are now suffering
big time with diving stock prices and huge losses. And all I can think
is those dinosaurs deserve it.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">For more info, and links to
the DVD, etc see: </font><font face="Arial" size="2"><a
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.pluginamerica.com/" target="_blank">
http://www.pluginamerica.com/</a></font></div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">BL</font></div>
<br>
<br>
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