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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Oh professor, how you cling to a specious
distinction. You may view "significant cognitive functioning"
as helpful in defining personhood so as to rationalize killing,
but it is still the taking of a human life. For humans who were
allowed to grow to adulthood unmolested to decide to kill those who have
yet to develope fully is the very height of callousness and insensetivity.
You can blame tradition all you like but as I pointed out, tradition is
frequently wrong and in this case you are tragically wrong along with
it.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>What kind of an ethical vacuum do you live in which
regards the murder of the innocent as a "good tradition?" If you truly
believe this, you are not being intellectually honest, but rather morally
bankrupt.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Now go grow some compassion.
-T</FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=ngier@uidaho.edu href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu">Nick Gier</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, January 25, 2007 8:59
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020] African Americans
and Fetuses</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Greetings:<BR><BR>The traditional view of moral and legal
persons, coming from our combined religious, moral, and legal histories,
eventually won out with regard to recognizing African Americans as full moral
and legal persons. In my article on abortion I've applied the same
definition to the early fetus and the logic of the definition does not
fit. To force fit a definition is simple intellectual
dishonesty.<BR><BR>Therefore, there is no moral equivalence between
recognizing people of color as persons and fetuses before 25
weeks.<BR><BR>Just being a good conservative by preserving good
traditions,<BR><BR>Nick Gier<BR><BR>At 07:25 AM 1/25/2007, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite"><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica"
size=2>Yes Nick, and under our laws in 1850, black folks could be held as
slaves. The point is professor, that it is high time the rights the
rest of us enjoy are extended to today's disenfranchised: the unborn.
How disappointing to see you on the wrong side of history this time.
Would you have rationalized the Dred Scott decision in its
day?<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica"
size=2>Tragic.<BR></FONT> <BR><FONT face="Arial, Helvetica"
size=2>-T<BR></FONT>
<DL>
<DD>----- Original Message ----- <BR>
<DD>From:</B> <A href="mailto:ngier@uidaho.edu">Nick Gier</A> <BR>
<DD>To:</B> <A href="mailto:tonytime@clearwire.net">Tony</A> <BR>
<DD>Sent:</B> Wednesday, January 24, 2007 9:31 AM<BR>
<DD>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] One More "Killer" Released Because of
DNA<BR><BR>
<DD>Greetings:<BR><BR>
<DD>Under our laws the crime of murder can happen only against moral and
legal persons. Our religious, moral, and legal tradition does not
recognize first and second trimester fetuses as persons. Once again
I provide the link for my essay on abortion: <A
href="http://www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/abortion.htm"
eudora="autourl">www.class.uidaho.edu/ngier/abortion.htm</A>.<BR><BR>
<DD>Fetuses are of course biological human beings from conception on, but
so are thousands of other animal species. As a vegetarian I'm quite
willing to shift to a consistent pro-life position, but I believe that
most people are not willing to do this. The moral ball is in their
court, and it's their serve.<BR><BR>
<DD>Veggie Burgers Forever!<BR><BR>
<DD>Nick Gier<BR><BR>
<DD>At 09:22 AM 1/24/2007, you wrote:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=cite cite="" type="cite">
<DD>Nick, I was heartened to see you change your mind with regard to
abortion. You are absolutely correct that the state should not be in the
business of premeditated murder, especially in the case of those who are
innocent in EVERY case. It is such a joy to see reason and compassion
prevail. Best, -T ----- Original Message ----- From:
<nickgier@adelphia.net> To: <vision2020@moscow.com> Sent:
Wednesday, January 24, 2007 8:57 AM Subject: [Vision2020] One More
"Killer" Released Because of DNA > Greetings: > > Fortunately,
most DNA exonerations are happening with prisoners who are > still
alive. The real injustice, however, is those, now over 100, who
> were executed before the tests could be done. > > The state
should not be in the business of premeditated murder, especially > if
it cannot be sure of that its victims are guilty. > > Nick Gier
> > January 24, 2007, NY Times > With DNA From Exhumed Body,
Man Finally Wins Freedom > By FERNANDA SANTOS > > AUBURN, N.Y.,
Jan. 23 — Roy Brown, who spent 15 yeears in prison on a > murder
conviction and uncovered evidence while there that linked another >
man to the crime, was released from prison on Tuesday after DNA tests on
> the other man’s exhumed body matched saliva on a nightshirt at
the crime > scene. > > After 15 years behind bars, Mr. Brown
stepped out of court into a light > snowfall and gently pushed his
way through a cluster of relatives who vied > for his attention. The
reception was fine, he said, but he is too sick > with liver disease
to stand on his feet for long. > > “Changes have got to be made,
man,” Mr. Brown said later at a lawyer’s > office across the
street, answering questions in a monotone as he rested > awkwardly in
a black swivel chair. “They say the wheels of justice move >
slowly, but you know what? The wheels of justice are flat.” > >
Mr. Brown, 46, is the eighth person in New York State exonerated through
> DNA evidence in the past 13 months, more than in any other state
during > the same period. > > The DNA tests that freed him
confirmed the results of his own jailhouse > investigation, in which
he discovered documents that incriminated Barry > Bench, a volunteer
firefighter, in the murder of Sabina Kulakowski, 49, a > social
worker who had lived with Mr. Bench’s brother until months before >
her death. Earlier DNA tests conducted by Mr. Brown’s lawyers linked
Mr. > Bench’s daughter, Katherine Eckstadt, to the genetic code
lifted from the > saliva on Ms. Kulakowski’s nightshirt. > >
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<DD>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the application of it to
human affairs."<BR>
<DD>--Ralph Waldo Emerson<BR><BR>
<DD>"Abstract truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who
represent it, by proving their readiness to die for it."<BR>
<DD> --Mohandas Gandhi<BR><BR>
<DD>"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system cannot be
discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each part
by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual
life. It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and
art. The whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts."
--Ma<FONT size=1>x Planck<BR><BR></FONT>
<DD>Nicholas F. Gier<BR>
<DD>Professor Emeritus, Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho<BR>
<DD>1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID 83843<BR>
<DD><A href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm</A><BR>
<DD>208-882-9212/FAX 885-8950<BR>
<DD>President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<BR>
<DD><A href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm</A><BR></DD></DL></BLOCKQUOTE><X-SIGSEP>
<P></X-SIGSEP>
<DL></DL><FONT size=2>"Truth is the summit of being; justice is the
application of it to human affairs."<BR>--Ralph Waldo Emerson<BR><BR>"Abstract
truth has no value unless it incarnates in human beings who represent it, by
proving their readiness to die for it."<BR> --Mohandas
Gandhi<BR><BR>"Modern physics has taught us that the nature of any system
cannot be discovered by dividing it into its component parts and studying each
part by itself. . . .We must keep our attention fixed on the whole and on the
interconnection between the parts. The same is true of our intellectual life.
It is impossible to make a clear cut between science, religion, and art. The
whole is never equal simply to the sum of its various parts." --Ma</FONT><FONT
size=1>x Planck<BR><BR></FONT>Nicholas F. Gier<BR>Professor Emeritus,
Department of Philosophy, University of Idaho<BR>1037 Colt Rd., Moscow, ID
83843<BR><A href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/home.htm<BR></A>208-882-9212/FAX
885-8950<BR>President, Idaho Federation of Teachers, AFL-CIO<BR><A
href="http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm"
eudora="autourl">http://users.adelphia.net/~nickgier/ift.htm<BR><BR></A>
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