<div>All-</div>
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<div>Vision2020 is certainly of value, offering another outlet for information and an opportunity for open discussion without censorship or advertising revenue to worry about. To measure the value would require a statistical survey of the community. I suspect the impact is small, given that a limited number of subscribers, somewhere around 500, the last I saw, read and/or participate, though many read the archives without a subscription. Again, without an accurate statistical survey, we don't know the impact..
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<div>This unmoderated list both causes problems yet offers a freedom that provides benefits. </div>
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<div>While much of the negative content drives people away, I suspect that for another group the gossip and "heated" discussion attracts readers! And that many who do not like the focus on certain issues or personalities, and yet continue to subscribe, sometimes even after announcing they were cancelling because they thought the list a waste of time, or a blot on the community, betray that they think Vision2020 to be important.
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<div>Vision2020 can be viewed as an experiment in pure democratic speech with no restrictions...And given this assumption, the harsh, heated, dogmatic, hostile voices of people will inevitably be expressed. Rather than viewing this as wholly negative, and thus rendering the list fatally flawed, I suggest that in some respects this is healthy... It provides an outlet for frustration and confrontation that can be relatively safe, and is a sign of a "realness" to the debates and discussions, rather than having a sanitized polite version of debate which hides the intense emotional nature of peoples opinions.
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<div>Some of the personalities that have appeared on Vision2020 were a major annoyance (to put it mildly) for many, but certain of these personalities gave/give the list readership a taste of what real people are really thinking about certain moral and political issues, like gay rights or the Iraq war. This could be viewed as a wake up call regarding the opinions of many in the USA, a window into a kind of thinking that is far more common than some might want to realize, that is having a dramatic impact on the direction the USA is taking.
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<div>You might not get this same kind of uncensored "wake up call" from other forms of more regulated or censored media.</div>
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<div>Ted Moffett<br><br> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 1/18/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">david sarff</b> <<a href="mailto:davesway@hotmail.com">davesway@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><br>Dear Pat,Tim, et al.<br>I don't think we can measure the full value yet. It would be hard to deny<br>that it didn't impact Alturas, Wal-Mart , third street bridge, D street
<br>stop sign, the highway south, the last election…lots of things really.<br>Pat is correct within one or two band widths of frequency. The CC and other<br>lightning rod issues along with our individual expression of opinion, take
<br>up a lot of space. This form of communication is very young though. There<br>are several levels of interaction sorting themselves out. It is crude and I<br>wouldn't expect things to smooth out for many years.<br>I happen to believe in evolution. It is a very slow process of nature and
<br>none of us get the option of fast forward beyond our present capabilities<br>and this includes the ability to understand others and have them understand<br>us.<br>Things come in waves here. I remember a long going argument about gun rights
<br>that went on and on and on before the CC thing happened . Not a word on that<br>in years now.<br>Mr. Wilson came in here and did quickly set himself up as a lighting rod.<br>But beyond Tom and Doug F's antics, that realm of discussion has evolved
<br>some. The wolf discussion going on now is good. There is a variety of stuff.<br>I don't think Tom Trail , Shirley Ringo or Jennifer McFarland would post<br>anything if they didn't think there was value to the community here.
<br>As for myself, this community has gone through some growth oriented changes<br>that have seriously damaged my sense of identity that is personally and<br>deeply founded in a wholly different kind of community. One where you just
<br>about knew everyone you passed on the street. Its as if somebody is<br>Picassoing the Palouse with readjustments of familiar surroundings. This<br>medium has made up for at least some of the dysphoria I feel about all that
<br>and so it is very welcome.<br>Could it be better, well, sure thing about that.<br>Dave<br><br>><br>>No, v2020 really has no real affect on Moscow...most of the people in this<br>>community do not even know it exists. Others have tried it and given up in
<br>>disgust. Only an elitists few actually read it every day and post anything<br>>only some of which is actually valuable. It has become known as a site<br>>wherein attacks on Doug Wilson are so personal as to be slanderous. And
<br>>those looking to throw out Christ Church have turned this site into a hate<br>>factory. On many occasions when I have been introduced to someone here in<br>>town I hear many comments on what and who posts and the hate that is here.
<br>>J ford, Joan and others have ruined it for so many. The progress of Moscow<br>>is not and I repeat NOT tied to Christ Church.<br>>Yes, I also post here and read what is being said and on occasion even post<br>
>something usually just to present something of another view point. But of a<br>>22 thou population why would anyone think that those who post here have any<br>>influence on the rest of this city? Vision 2020 is not about and forward
<br>>vision for Moscow it is a place where in J ford and others can attack and<br>>individual and a church with their personal hate and try to make others<br>>believe it all...Oh! and of course it is in the name of religion.
<br>> ----- Original Message -----<br>> From: Tim Lohrmann<br>> To: <a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 10:42 AM<br>> Subject: [Vision2020] List Impact
<br>><br>><br>> All,<br>><br>> A subscriber to another list I check occasionally asked an interesting<br>>question the other day.<br>> One that might be worth discussing here as well.<br>><br>
> It was simply: "Overall, does this list have a positive or negative<br>>impact on the community."<br>><br>> What about V2020's impact?<br>><br>> Later,<br>> TL<br>><br>>
<br>><br>><br>><br>> "Those 'technicalities' have a name, Bobby. They're called the Bill of<br>>Rights."<br>><br>> ----Hank Hill<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>><br>
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