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<DIV><SPAN class=915403620-16012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>Personal
attacks?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=915403620-16012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>I asked two
questions...... two.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=915403620-16012007><FONT face=Arial size=2>I knew nothing about
Dave, his ag background or anything. He went off on me for questioning him about
his claim that farmers don't care about sustainabilty of their
ground.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=915403620-16012007><FONT face=Arial><FONT size=2>He had the
unmitigated gall to all but accuse me of being racist with his little tirade and
<FONT face="Times New Roman">his "And you know, not much seems to have
changed, including people with attitudes like yours." <FONT
face=Arial>comment.</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=915403620-16012007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>Attitude for what, questioning?
How dare someone question his statement, "The ag community needs to break its
monoculturalistic thinking and adopt sustainability principles.", given that he
gave no clue to his backround? Heck, for all I know he could have been a
street artist in in San Fransico who couldn't tell the differene between
wheat and barley.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=915403620-16012007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>I don't think there is a competent
farmer out there that doesn't realize the value of taking care of the
land.</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=915403620-16012007><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2><FONT
face="Times New Roman" color=#000000
size=3></FONT><BR> </DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader dir=ltr align=left><FONT face=Tahoma
size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com [mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com]<B>On
Behalf Of </B>Ted Moffett<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:34
PM<BR><B>To:</B> david sarff; Vision2020<BR><B>Subject:</B> [Vision2020]
Argicultural,Energy Sustainability (Was Moscow's Growth
Policies...)<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Dave et. al.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I pondered a post to counter what seemed like "personal" attacks
against your suggestions on sustainability, but after reading your response,
why bother?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>What a great post, Dave! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Now if only we can attain energy sustainability coupled with
environmental sanity, via stopping or slowing development based on a fossil
fuel/CO2 emitting powered model, that will wreck havoc on the biosphere
on a global scale, as non-renewable fossil fuel resources are depleted.
I am part of the problem with my driving habits, and good jobs and
wealth are wonderful... But the writing is on the wall! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I am amazed at the growth advocates who don't appear to consider the
frightening impacts of the fact that the USA per capita contributes more
tonnage of CO2 to the atmosphere than any other nation on Earth, while they
advocate that we continue development and expansion based on this
inefficient and non-sustainable fossil fuel powered model of life style,
industry and consumerism. Efforts are being made for improvements in
efficiency and CO2 neutral energy sources, but the bottom line remains that
absolute levels of CO2 emitted by the US economy continue to increase, as we
glut on a resource that will be rendered scarce for future generations </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Till this reality is addressed aggressively, economic expansion based on
massive CO2 output will only place the extreme costs of climate change onto
the next generation, or sooner, while the lifestyle based on cheap fossil
fuels will be in jeopardy due to fossil fuel depletion, if sustainable
affordable energy alternatives and technologies on a
massive scale are not implemented. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Millions of people on the planet will pay the price for our fossil fueled
powered wealth and success, mostly in the poorer nations, due to catastrophic
climate change. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Of course, China and India will soon surpass the US in fossil
fuel use and thus CO2 output... And if the US is not addressing the
problem aggressively, what convincing argument can be made that they
should also?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Ted Moffett, dumping 3 tons of CO2 into the atmosphere every year with my
below average contribution for a US driver.<BR><BR> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=gmail_quote>On 1/15/07, <B class=gmail_sendername>david
sarff</B> <<A
href="mailto:davesway@hotmail.com">davesway@hotmail.com</A>> wrote:</SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE class=gmail_quote
style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid"><BR>Hello
Kai,<BR>Some years ago, during the great terrorism scare of the late 1800's
, when<BR>Chief Joseph and Looking Glass were on the rampage and the locals
were <BR>engaged in practicing homeland security. My Great, Great,
Grandparents had<BR>come up the river earlier because congress told the
public that the property<BR>of the west was open to them. Not to long after
they built along the river <BR>the family was brought into Colfax for their
protection. They were very<BR>frightened about the situation as the US Army
tended to there usual work,<BR>doing their jobs, representing the country
and unfortunately chasing around <BR>and killing a bunch of really quite
innocent folks, and calling it a war.<BR>After the Army got things all nice
and secure , setting up some forts here<BR>and there. The US citizens and my
family continued to go about their <BR>business and exploit the resources as
they were led to believe that<BR>everything was on the up n
up. And you know, not much seems to have<BR>changed, including
people with attitudes like yours.<BR>My local family stomping grounds runs
up the river from the ocean to about <BR>Palouse falls, then up to Sandpoint
and back down to the North Fork. There<BR>are a couple homesteads underwater
and one under PFI. If you haven't<BR>noticed, the fishing has been real bad
for a considerable period of time and <BR>the eels are completely gone. The
soil has gotten damp enough that the few<BR>fish left swim over it.<BR>Four
generations have been in Moscow proper. If you get buried in any<BR>cemetery
in Latah county, you can thank one of my granddads, Clarence Jenks, <BR>for
setting up the county districts. He was a Moscow Chamber pres and<BR>printer
for the Daily Star and Queen city printing, If you meet,
I'm<BR>certain you'll get along with him quite well…His better half is
simply<BR>wonderful.<BR>He said that the "City with a Smile" slogan was
rues. I see that the signs<BR>have been removed. Kind of metaphorical,
really.<BR><BR>I grew up in town and got side tracked by my very good high
school ag <BR>instructor, Kirk Rush. He helped me acquire my first full time
job for<BR>Moscow Implement, selling parts. That was my first serious
infusion into the<BR>ag community. After that I went to collage at LCSC. Out
of that went to work <BR>for State Tractor with Gary Crabtree. Not much real
ag stuff going on there,<BR>but some( and it gets him in the story). Durring
the 80's I had and auto<BR>repair shop in town. Some of the customers were
farmers as well as freands. <BR>They always need some kind of help,
particularly at harvest time.<BR>In the 90's I worked four years at Columbia
Tractor.<BR>I can repair and operate just about anything you can think of
and have<BR>worked for a handful of farmers in a variety of different
capacities. Over <BR>the years I've had plenty of experience with the ag
community. They have one<BR>hell of a hard row to hoe and I have seen it up
close and personal.<BR>My present volunteer activities include native plant
regeneration with the <BR>Palouse Prairie Foundation.<BR>With that group I
sometimes volunteer work to do preservation work with the<BR>local
endangered native plant community ( and the Great White Worm). There<BR>are
farmers that attend that group. We talk about dirt... <BR>There is a member
in the group named Maynard Fosberg who is a retired soil<BR>scientist. I'm
confident that he has the kind of authority your looking for.<BR>As far as
my ears and eyes can tell, soil conditions are continuing to <BR>decline and
if you want a good description of soil health in just about any<BR>region of
the world, then I'm certain he'd love to bend your ear a bit, if<BR>you were
to look for him.<BR>Almost all farms are *Not* operating their land
sustainably and its not <BR>entirely their fault. The soils are completely
addicted to chemicals and the<BR>crops to gene pool juggling.<BR>If you want
a good definition and read that reflects my idea of just what<BR>constitutes
sustainability, I recommend reading the works of Bill Mollison.
<BR>Speaking of Coyote stories, the Nez Perce Nation has been here a bit
longer<BR>than any settlers family you can find.<BR>I accept
their ideas about how the land (and the rivers) should
sustainably<BR>treated.<BR>Maybe will see you at the spring Pow Wow. We can
talk about the land and <BR>supporting property
rights.<BR>Dave<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>><BR>>Dave said
"The ag community needs to break its monoculturalistic thinking<BR>>and
adopt sustainability principles."<BR>>Ummmm, Dave, many of the farms in
this area have been in production and <BR>>passed down through 3
generations at this point. That's about 100 years of<BR>>sustainability.
There is a saying that farmers have, "Take care of the<BR>>ground and
it'll take care of you." <BR>>Please name any other family owned
businesses that have been here that<BR>>long.<BR>>And please tell us
how much time you've spent on a farm or other
ag<BR>>operation.<BR>><BR>> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>