<br>W. et. al.<br><br>I agree mostly with your thoughtful response...<br><br>I think the average consumer can drive corporate choices to address global warming, simply by choosing to purchase much more fuel efficient vehicles. If the gas guzzlers sit on car lots with no customers, the auto manufacturers will make fewer.
<br><br>Many people do want to make responsible choices for the environment, though it is obvious that government should mandate higher fuel efficiency standards. That much better fuel efficiency standards have not been mandated by the US Federal government is shocking, and no doubt connected to corporate control over our government
<br><br>Still, we have the corporate example of the founders of Google investing in the new cheaper thin film solar panels that are now being manufactured, with a huge manufacturing facility being built in the San Francisco Bay area. British Petroleum, one of the worlds largest oil companies, also invests heavily in alternative energy. They even features ads claiming BP stands for "Beyond Petroleum," gaining a favorable mention from many environmentalists, though the bulk of their business is still fossil fuel connected ("beyond petroleum," ha, ha, ha!).
<br><br>Of course, if governments mandate CO2 penalties on economic activity, this can provide a greed incentive to address the problem, both for corporations and consumers (higher CO2 taxes at purchase for lower fuel efficiency vehicles). But when the corporations control government legislation, what are the odds of this? Which is very likely why we do not see CO2 taxes imposed in the USA, and the USA opted out of the Kyoto Accords, while in numerous other nations CO2 taxes are now a reality. The power of US corporations to force our government to not impose CO2 taxes on their activity is probably greater than the corporate control in many other nations. Either that or in these other nations the corporations influencing the government are not as driven by narrow short term greed, and take the threat of global warming seriously.
<br><br>A good case can be made based on the long term impacts of global warming, even from a purely profit/greed orientation, that solving the problem now will allow making more money in the long run. But this is perhaps a multi-generational argument, appealing to profiteers to consider the world their children or grand children will inherit. It seems that greed is usually short term oriented, so despite the long term economic losses that global warming will impose, these long term losses are ignored.
<br><br>Of course, many in positions of power engage in wishful thinking that indeed global warming is a hoax or exaggerated greatly, so why impose economic penalties based on questionable assumptions? We hear this argument often. I even heard it coming from US Supreme Court justices in the ongoing federal court case regarding the suit that the EPA should be regulating CO2 in Massachusetts, et al. v. Environmental Protection Agency, et al.
<br><br>One of the greatest challenges in addressing global warming is thus nothing more than education regarding the validity of the science involved. I listened to testimony before the US Supreme Court from experts speaking on behalf of those bringing this lawsuit, patiently explaining to the justices the damage that CO2 will cause, specifically in the coastal areas of the USA due to rising sea levels.
<br><br>Action is being taken to address the USA's neglect of the global warming issue, when the EPA is facing suit in the US Supreme Court over CO2 emissions! As far as I have heard, this case has not been ruled on yet.
<br><br>Ted Moffett<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 1/5/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Art Deco</b> <<a href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</a>> wrote:</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff">
<div>Ted, et al,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Over the long term the most consistent, powerful, and ambient human
motivation is greed/self interest, particularly when those with excessive greed
join together to form and to operate various business corporations and like
entities.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If we want to stop global warming, which as we both agree is much more
serious than is widely believed, then any solution must take the greed factor
into consideration as a basic operational dictum.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Hence, the most likely solutions of global warming (if any truly effective
ones are ever implemented) will have as a postulate of operation that the
excessively greedy must be able to profit even more from the proposed solutions
then they are by their current operations which in large part have brought about
the global warming problem in the first place.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There are but few globally altruistic entrepreneurs. A current case
in point is resignation of the Home Depot CEO who received a payout of $210
million dollars despite his failure to improve the earnings and capital value of
the company -- greed and the worship of greed personified. Want a local
example of greed versus the public good? Look at some of the local
real estate developers, running dog agents, and LLCs. Our local cult is
another example of personal greed for wealth and power running amok despite the
dicta of the God they allege they worship to the contrary.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The rich and greedy have a lot more influence over who is elected and who
those elected listen to. Lobbyists for the rich and greedy rule.
Sad, disgusting, but highly probable. The richer and greedier you are, the
better representational democracy works for you. That is why I posted the
article about the machinations of Exxon-Mobil.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ordinary citizens have too many different activities going on in their
lives to spend time much trying to influence most legislation. Even when
they try, for the most part they are ineffective. Look at the carnage
caused by drinking and driving -- this carnage could be greatly reduced, except
that the very powerful food and beverage lobbies and the automotive lobbies
successfully oppose most needed reforms. Except when I lived in Minnesota
and from our local state legislators, every letter or suggestion I ever sent to
an elected official was answered by a form letter, sometimes a form letter on a
completely different subject, and a form letter containing very little
cogent information or reasoning, but in itself, a most clever piece of
spin.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ordinary citizens, except when they act en masse, have little influence on
their national legislators. The influence shaping legislation, except for
a few non-profit altruistic organizations, is generally wielded by the rich
and greedy through their corporate entities.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Want to solve a problem? Find a way for the rich and greedy to profit
from it. Appeal to their altruistic feelings generally does not
work. Fattening their wealth generally does.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>W.</div><div><span class="e" id="q_10ff4a98b479223d_1">
<div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message -----
<div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b>From:</b> <a title="starbliss@gmail.com" href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
Ted Moffett</a>
</div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="cstorhok@co.fairbanks.ak.us" href="mailto:cstorhok@co.fairbanks.ak.us" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Chris Storhok</a> </div>
<div><b>Cc:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">Vision 2020</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 05, 2007 1:47 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Can Algae Fill Our Gas Tanks & Can
Coal EnergyKeepCO2 Stored?</div></div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Hi Chris-</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I appreciate your comments... Your recommendations carry far more
weight, I suspect, than any proposals I might make, given your experience and
work.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If the Moscow City Council and the U of I need motivation from someone such
as I, with no credentials or experience in the field of alternative energy or
biofuels (beyond my informal independent scholarly studies on this issue,
pursued for the sheer joy of discovery and learning, along with a real concern
for the health of our beautiful planet), to aggressively pursue every option for
CO2 reduction in energy technology, then the human race is truly in d**p s**t.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>What about it, Wayne, do you agree with this assessment? Time to buy
that new "beach front" property that will inevitably form when the oceans
rise... Damn, if I could only predict the new "stable" beach fronts of the
future! <br> </div>
<div>Oh well, the human race has overpopulated the planet, and it may be poetic
justice if human caused global warming lowers the human population by
billions... We will face the consequences of our arrogant neglect of our
mother... The Earth. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I hope this does not happen, but the writing is on the wall. Money
rules, and there is too much money to be made in the short term from relying on
cheap accessible fossil fuel CO2 emitting energy, though I agree with Chris that
a reworking of energy markets and technology could generate economic
activity galore. However, this would displace other more fossil fuel
related economic interests, and they have tremendous power to control the energy
agenda, both in the private and public sector. And even the average
consumer may refuse to pay the increased costs of energy from non-CO2 emitting
sources, increased costs that are hard to get around, choosing (a choice they
perhaps should not be given) cheaper fossil fuel/CO2 emitting
energy. Energy industry players are now suing the State of California over
the requirements of the new California Global Warming Legislation that was
passed in an attempt to lower CO2 emissions. We can keep the fossil
fuel/CO2 emitting energy model going for another 50-100 years, and then when
global warming really scares people enough, it will be too late. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Just read Wayne's post on Exxon/Mobil manipulating science to cast doubt on
human caused global warming. Just as the Bush administration has
done. If the USA, the world's most powerful and rich nation, cannot lead
the way to solve the global warming crisis, as it clearly is not,
then...
fill in the blank. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Ted Moffett</div>
<div> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 1/5/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Chris
Storhok</b> <<a href="mailto:cstorhok@co.fairbanks.ak.us" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">cstorhok@co.fairbanks.ak.us</a>>
wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div link="blue" vlink="blue" lang="EN-US">
<div>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Ted,</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Why don't you propose
to the Moscow City Council and the UI the idea of using the city sewage
treatment facility as a source of nutrients to grow algae or duckweed for a
local bio-fuels production facility? The city has spent millions
of dollars trying to bring the facility up to current EPA standards and faces
spending millions more for future compliance standards; instead use that money
to build large runs that can grow algae or duckweed, a bio-fuel plant, and
storage facilities. I am sure that someone at the UI would love to serve
as a research partner to such a venture. </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">The city/university
partnership then could produce bio-fuels, sell it to fuel station owners who
then sell it to the consumer. The city/university partnership can make a
lot of money off of such a facility, address global warming issues, solve
water pollution problems; talk about a huge win-win for everyone.
</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">In my professional
opinion, the biofuels (and alternative energy market) is the next great
economic opportunity that the U.S. (and the rest of the world) faces.
</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">How about it Moscow
and UI? You can lead the world in alternative fuel production technology
using sewage effluent to grow algae to produce bio-fuels…. </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Chris</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">Chris
Storhok</span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;">(former Viola
resident) </span></font></p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<p><font color="navy" face="Arial" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; color: navy; font-family: Arial;"></span></font> </p>
<div>
<div style="text-align: center;" align="center"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></font></div>
<p><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-weight: bold; font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma;"> <a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:vision2020-bounces@moscow.com" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">vision2020-bounces@moscow.com</a>] <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">
On Behalf Of </span></b>Ted Moffett<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, January 03, 2007 12:08
AM<br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Vision2020<span><br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[Vision2020] Can Algae Fill Our Gas Tanks & Can Coal Energy KeepCO2
Stored?</span></span></font></p></div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">All-</span></font></p></div>
<div><span>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">I was
disappointed to learn that the biofuel plant planned for Spangle, Washington
has gone under:</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><a href="http://spokesmanreview.com/business/story.asp?ID=166758" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://spokesmanreview.com/business/story.asp?ID=166758
</a></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">However,
in a recent discussion of solutions to global warming and fossil fuel
depletion, someone mentioned biofuel from algae. I first thought...
Yeah, sure! But apparently this is not a joke: </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Read
about it here:</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><a href="http://www.energybulletin.net/2364.html" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.energybulletin.net/2364.html
</a></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">And while
I'm at it, there are promising developments with CO2 sequestration from coal
energy plants:</span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"><a href="http://www.discover.com/issues/dec-06/features/clean-coal-technology/?page=3" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://www.discover.com/issues/dec-06/features/clean-coal-technology/?page=3</a></span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Though
global warming and fossil fuel depletion are massive daunting problems that
threaten the next generation, there are solutions, and the quicker they are
adopted, the better. </span></font></p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;"></span></font> </p></div>
<div>
<p><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size: 12pt;">Ted
Moffett</span></font></p></div></span></div></div></div></blockquote></div><br>
</span></div><p>
</p><hr>
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