<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>I believe that there is an abundance of literature
validating the argument that the costs of life without parole are
substantially cheaper than executing someone. See page 4 of the attached
link. </FONT><FONT face=Arial><A
href="http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf">http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/FactSheet.pdf</A></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>The only way to make it cheaper to execute people is to
diminish the procedural protections that are currently in place and try to speed
up the process. Given the numbers of innocent people that are getting
convicted and placed on death row with the current procedural protections in
place, further eroding the procedural protections of appeal and habeas corpus
will ensure that the numbers of innocent, wrongly convicted will increase.
(note the discussions on this list about the erosion of habeas corpus
protections recently, but understand that radical changes in the availability
and scope of habeas corpus was dramatically limited by the passage of the
Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>For those who believe that deterrence based on the death
penalty is a valid, real notion, look at page 3 of the attached link. I
have not commented on the validity of studies advanced by Dudley Sharp and his
victim's rights organization "Justice For All," but I believe that his and the
organization's statistics are more biased and misleading than those on
the admittedly anti-death penalty cite that I am quoting herein. I don't
have my fingers on the rebuttal of many of Mr. Sharp's statements, but he is
known as a "loose cannon" who is a "good quote" when news media are looking for
something from his side of the spectrum. My sense is that he has been
caught lying, or blatantly misleading in his assertions with a disturbing
degree of frequency. The bulk of the research on the deterrent effect
weighs against a significant deterrent effect. This comports with
intuition. The marginal effect of having a death penalty to pile onto the
life without parole penalty that is in place in virtually all states
cannot lead to much deterrent effect. There are very few people who think,
"hmmm, I can kill this person and only get life without parole, so that's worth
the risk, but if I were in a death penalty state and had that added risk, I
wouldn't consider murdering this person." The fact is most murders are
committed by people who don't think in terms of consequences or getting
caught.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Bruce Livingston</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>From: "lfalen" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:lfalen@turbonet.com"><FONT
face=Arial>lfalen@turbonet.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>To: "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>>; "g. crabtree"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Cc: "vision2020" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 10:02 AM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Duncan plea
deal</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial>>I heard on the news
this morning that Shasta Goene may still have to testify. So much for helping
her with the plea deal. Some have claimed that it costs more to execute a person
that to have them incarcerated for life. Duncan could live an other 50 years. I
find it hard to believe that the cost of keeping him locked up is less tha an
execution. I am not into vengeance, but I do care about the cost to the taxpayer
and public safety. Execute him.<BR>> <BR>> Roger<BR>> -----Original
message-----<BR>> From: Joe Campbell </FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>> Date: Tue, 17
Oct 2006 20:12:30 -0700<BR>> To: "g. crabtree" </FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>> Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Duncan plea deal<BR>> <BR>>> Sorry for not responding to
your wonderful example of an appeal to authority earlier, Gary, but I've been
busy with my day job.<BR>>> <BR>>> Here is my response: Your
comments below commit the fallacy of appeal to authority. Do you really think
that I can't find some neat quotes on the web in favor of my
position?<BR>>> <BR>>> --<BR>>> Joe Campbell<BR>>>
<BR>>> ---- "g. crabtree" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>> wrote:
<BR>>> <BR>>> =============<BR>>> Actually Joe, if by
empirical you meant "derived from or guided by experience or observation" I
would have no choice but to disagree. I would think that just about everyone who
has given even the most fleeting attention to the news for the last few years
could cite five or more instances of murderers fighting to avoid the death
penalty for every one that embraces that option. According to the folks at
DPINFO.COM (death penalty information) what appears to be an unbiased
clearinghouse for this type of information. <BR>>> <BR>>> "At every
level of the criminal justice process, virtually all criminals do everything
they can to lessen possible punishments. I estimate that less than 1% of
all convicted capital murderers request a death sentence in the punishment phase
of their trial. The apprehended criminals' desire for lesser punishments
is overwhelming and unchallenged.<BR>>> <BR>>> Of the 7300 inmates
sentenced to death since 1973, 85, or 1.2% have waived remaining appeals and
been executed. 98.8% have not waived appeals. The evidence is overwhelming
that murderers would rather live on death row than die. Why? The
survival effect -- life is preferred over death and death is feared more than
life. Even on death row, that is the
rule." Dudley Sharp, Resource Director,
Justice For All<BR>>> <BR>>> With this in mind, I would contend that
your assertion that "It is not as if your view has any more empirical support
than mine!" is, once again, wrong. <BR>>> <BR>>> gc<BR>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>> From: "Joe
Campbell" <</FONT><A href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>> To:
"g. crabtree" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>> Cc:
"Pat Kraut" <</FONT><A href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>>; "vision2020"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 7:50 AM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Duncan plea deal<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> > Gary,<BR>>>
> <BR>>> > It is not as if your view has any more empirical support
than mine!<BR>>> > <BR>>> > --<BR>>> > Joe
Campbell<BR>>> > <BR>>> > ---- "g. crabtree" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>> wrote:
<BR>>> > <BR>>> > =============<BR>>> > Reason #3: A
long life in prison is far worse than a short death.<BR>>> >
<BR>>> > If this is truly the case, why do you suppose so many vermin
such as Duncan <BR>>> > prefer/fight for the life sentence? For the
most part this, is true of all <BR>>> > convicted killers. What do you
base your contention on? I can't imagine that <BR>>> > it's even how
you, personally, would feel should you ever be in a similar <BR>>> >
circumstance. (not that you would, of course) This "long life in prison is
<BR>>> > worse than death." mantra seems to be bandied about as a
truism with <BR>>> > precious little supporting evidence. In fact, most
evidence points the other <BR>>> > way.<BR>>> > <BR>>>
> gc<BR>>> > From: "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>> >
To: "Pat Kraut" <</FONT><A href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>> >
Cc: "vision2020" <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 6:33 AM<BR>>> > Subject: Re:
[Vision2020] Duncan plea deal<BR>>> > <BR>>> > <BR>>>
>> Pat,<BR>>> >><BR>>> >> Unfortunately, the fact
is that you and I will pay more if he is <BR>>> >> (eventually) put
to death. Yet another reason not to have the death <BR>>> >>
penalty.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >> Reason #3: A long life in
prison is far worse than a short death.<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> --<BR>>> >> Joe Campbell<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> ---- Pat Kraut <</FONT><A href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>> wrote:<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> =============<BR>>> >> But why do I
have to pay for him to continue to have life in any form?<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >><BR>>> >><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> If we do discover a complete theory..of
everything...we shall all,<BR>>> >> philosophers, scientists and
just ordinary people,<BR>>> >> be able to take part in the
discussion of why it is that we and the <BR>>> >>
universe<BR>>> >> exist if we find the answer to that,<BR>>>
>> it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason...for then we would
know<BR>>> >> the mind of God.<BR>>> >> Stephen
Hawking<BR>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>> >>
From: <</FONT><A href="mailto:whayman@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial>whayman@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>
>> To: "Andreas Schou" <</FONT><A href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"><FONT
face=Arial>ophite@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>> >>
Cc: <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial>><BR>>>
>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 3:09 PM<BR>>> >> Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Duncan plea deal<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> Hello all,<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> I would agree with anyone that Duncan tests the limits much more than
even<BR>>> >> more than Malvo in the DC area. What Duncan apparently
did lies outside <BR>>> >> the<BR>>> >> human scope of
sympathy. But even within this absolutely and disgustingly<BR>>> >>
twisted psychopathic scenario, I still cannot advocate a penalty of
death<BR>>> >> for anyone. Duncan included.<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> Killing, as we all know, brings back no one. The
argument of the death<BR>>> >> penalty as resolution and closure I
find closer to vengeance than justice.<BR>>> >><BR>>> >>
Please don't take me wrong; I don't think rehab etc. is the issue in
this<BR>>> >> case. I do hope that the rest of his life is spent
anonymously and ignobly<BR>>> >> incarcerated.<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >> Warren Hayman<BR>>> >><BR>>>
>> =======================================================<BR>>>
>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>
>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>
>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>
>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>
>> =======================================================<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>
=======================================================<BR>>> >>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>> >>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>
>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>
>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>
>> =======================================================<BR>>>
>><BR>>> >>
=======================================================<BR>>> >>
List services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>> >>
serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<BR>>>
>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>
>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>
>> =======================================================<BR>>>
>> <BR>>> > <BR>>> > <BR>>> > <BR>>>
><BR>>> <BR>>>
=======================================================<BR>>> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>
<BR>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>>
=======================================================<BR>>> <BR>>
<BR>>
=======================================================<BR>> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT
face=Arial>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><FONT
face=Arial>
<BR>> </FONT><A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT
face=Arial>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial>>
=======================================================<BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>