<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Professor Campbell, let me see if I understand you
correctly. You claim that I have committed the logical fallacy of appeal to
authority and then provide nothing to backup your assertion. I would think that
to make your charge stick you would have to A. Provide some evidence that
Mr.Sharp is not knowledgeable on the topic being discussed or B. (and
more importantly) that the statistics he cites are in error, Or C. That I am
misapplying Mr. Sharp's expertise or statistics. Quoting an person knowledgeable
in the field who is referencing verifiable statistics is NOT a logical fallacy.
(You actually teach logic? As your "day job?") </FONT><FONT face=Arial
size=2>It would seem that you've achieved the enlightened state
of "I'm right and facts be damned." With that in mind, I guess I
would enjoy seeing what you can come up with by way of "neat quotes in
favor of your position." I would hope that they might contain a scrap of fact
rather then the usual emotion and fallacious statement that has
been characteristic of your previous responses. What empirical data or
statistic can you provide to support your assertion that "A long life in prison
is far worse than a short death?" What pearl of reason will you come up with to
counter the pesky fact (in bold below) that, statistically, murderers prefer to
be behind bars rather then answering to their Maker? I would have thought
that as man who pridefully proclaims <FONT size=3> </FONT><FONT
size=2>"I am an expert about KNOWLEDGE." you should surely be able to set me
straight in short order. Instead all I'm seeing is fallacy
followed by mistake. I look forward to a reasoned response.
Baring that, I guess I'll have to settle for your usual
reply.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>gc</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>----- Original Message ----- </FONT>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>From: "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To: "g. crabtree" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Cc: "Pat Kraut" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "vision2020"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2006 8:12
PM</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Duncan plea
deal</FONT></DIV></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial><BR><FONT size=2></FONT></FONT></DIV><FONT face=Arial
size=2>> Sorry for not responding to your wonderful example of an appeal to
authority earlier, Gary, but I've been busy with my day job.<BR>> <BR>>
Here is my response: Your comments below commit the fallacy of appeal to
authority. Do you really think that I can't find some neat quotes on the web in
favor of my position?<BR>> <BR>> --<BR>> Joe Campbell<BR>> <BR>>
---- "g. crabtree" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT
face=Arial size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote: <BR>> <BR>> =============<BR>> Actually Joe, if by empirical you
meant "derived from or guided by experience or observation" I would have no
choice but to disagree. I would think that just about everyone who has given
even the most fleeting attention to the news for the last few years could cite
five or more instances of murderers fighting to avoid the death penalty for
every one that embraces that option. According to the folks at DPINFO.COM (death
penalty information) what appears to be an unbiased clearinghouse for this type
of information. <BR>> <BR>> "At every level of the criminal justice
process, virtually all criminals do everything they can to lessen possible
punishments. I estimate that less than 1% of all convicted capital
murderers request a death sentence in the punishment phase of their trial.
The apprehended criminals' desire for lesser punishments is overwhelming and
unchallenged.<BR>> <BR>><STRONG><FONT size=3>Of the 7300 inmates sentenced
to death since 1973, 85, or 1.2% have waived remaining appeals and been
executed. 98.8% have not waived appeals. </FONT></STRONG> The
evidence is overwhelming that murderers would rather live on death row than
die. Why? The survival effect -- life is preferred over death and
death is feared more than life. Even on death row, that is the
rule." Dudley Sharp, Resource Director,
Justice For All<BR>> <BR>> With this in mind, I would contend that your
assertion that "It is not as if your view has any more empirical support than
mine!" is, once again, wrong. <BR>> <BR>> gc<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>
----- Original Message ----- <BR>> From: "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>> To: "g.
crabtree" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>> Cc:
"Pat Kraut" <</FONT><A href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>; "vision2020"
<</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2006 7:50 AM<BR>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Duncan
plea deal<BR>> <BR>> <BR>>> Gary,<BR>>> <BR>>> It is not
as if your view has any more empirical support than mine!<BR>>>
<BR>>> --<BR>>> Joe Campbell<BR>>> <BR>>> ---- "g.
crabtree" <</FONT><A href="mailto:jampot@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>jampot@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>> wrote:
<BR>>> <BR>>> =============<BR>>> Reason #3: A long life in
prison is far worse than a short death.<BR>>> <BR>>> If this is
truly the case, why do you suppose so many vermin such as Duncan <BR>>>
prefer/fight for the life sentence? For the most part this, is true of all
<BR>>> convicted killers. What do you base your contention on? I can't
imagine that <BR>>> it's even how you, personally, would feel should you
ever be in a similar <BR>>> circumstance. (not that you would, of course)
This "long life in prison is <BR>>> worse than death." mantra seems to be
bandied about as a truism with <BR>>> precious little supporting evidence.
In fact, most evidence points the other <BR>>> way.<BR>>>
<BR>>> gc<BR>>> From: "Joe Campbell" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>joekc@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>> To:
"Pat Kraut" <</FONT><A href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>> Cc:
"vision2020" <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2006 6:33 AM<BR>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Duncan plea deal<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>>>
Pat,<BR>>>><BR>>>> Unfortunately, the fact is that you and I
will pay more if he is <BR>>>> (eventually) put to death. Yet another
reason not to have the death <BR>>>>
penalty.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Reason #3: .A long life in prison is
far worse than a short death<BR>>>><BR>>>> --<BR>>>>
Joe Campbell<BR>>>><BR>>>> ---- Pat Kraut <</FONT><A
href="mailto:pkraut@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>pkraut@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>>
wrote:<BR>>>><BR>>>> =============<BR>>>> But why do
I have to pay for him to continue to have life in any
form?<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>>
If we do discover a complete theory..of everything...we shall
all,<BR>>>> philosophers, scientists and just ordinary
people,<BR>>>> be able to take part in the discussion of why it is that
we and the <BR>>>> universe<BR>>>> exist if we find the answer
to that,<BR>>>> it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason...for
then we would know<BR>>>> the mind of God.<BR>>>> Stephen
Hawking<BR>>>> ----- Original Message ----- <BR>>>> From:
<</FONT><A href="mailto:whayman@adelphia.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>whayman@adelphia.net</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>>> To: "Andreas Schou" <</FONT><A
href="mailto:ophite@gmail.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>ophite@gmail.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial size=2>><BR>>>>
Cc: <</FONT><A href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><FONT face=Arial
size=2>><BR>>>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 3:09
PM<BR>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Duncan plea
deal<BR>>>><BR>>>><BR>>>> Hello
all,<BR>>>><BR>>>> I would agree with anyone that Duncan tests
the limits much more than even<BR>>>> more than Malvo in the DC area.
What Duncan apparently did lies outside <BR>>>> the<BR>>>>
human scope of sympathy. But even within this absolutely and
disgustingly<BR>>>> twisted psychopathic scenario, I still cannot
advocate a penalty of death<BR>>>> for anyone. Duncan
included.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Killing, as we all know, brings back
no one. The argument of the death<BR>>>> penalty as resolution and
closure I find closer to vengeance than justice.<BR>>>><BR>>>>
Please don't take me wrong; I don't think rehab etc. is the issue in
this<BR>>>> case. I do hope that the rest of his life is spent
anonymously and ignobly<BR>>>>
incarcerated.<BR>>>><BR>>>> Warren
Hayman<BR>>>><BR>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994.<BR>>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>><BR>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994.<BR>>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>><BR>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>> List
services made available by First Step Internet,<BR>>>> serving the
communities of the Palouse since
1994.<BR>>>>
</FONT><A href="http://www.fsr.net"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>http://www.fsr.net</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>
</FONT><A href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com"><FONT face=Arial
size=2>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=Arial
size=2>>>>
=======================================================<BR>>>>
<BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>> <BR>>><BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>