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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>D. I respectfully disagree with your
characterization of defense attorneys as the bad guys in your scenario. When you
lock yourself out of your car or apartment as you admit that you are wont to do
on occasion, do you rail and castigate the dashing and ruggedly handsome
locksmith who comes to your aid? Sunil (another fine figure of a man, dashing in
his own right in his well tailored suit and stylish haircut, but I digress) and
others of his profession are in a similar position. They come to render
assistance to someone who has, potentially, done something stupid or
worse. There are specialists who are wily in the way of the lock and there
are men who can help a fella navigate the corridors of the courtroom. We all
have our place. If you feel that someone has to absorb the blame for the wrongs
that you perceive in the legal system you might do better to complain about
legislators who create the rules. Lobby for a law that stipulates that at the
slightest suggestion of impropriety involving a minor or the vaguest hint of
anti-American activity an unappealable life sentence be imposed. I
will not be joining you in this crusade and, I assume, if you aren't on board
either it's because you DO see some merit in a legal system that has room for
studly stalwarts such as Sunil.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>gc</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=betsyd@turbonet.com
href="mailto:betsyd@turbonet.com">Betsy Dickow</A> ; <A title=kjajmix1@msn.com
href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely emerinemix</A> ; <A
title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A> ; <A
title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, September 17, 2006 9:28
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [Spam] Re:
attacks that really matter</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>One way I confirm that I am on track is when the Collective
Authoritative Elitists, who mistakenly identify themselves as liberals in this
town, start telling me to shut up and re-frame from expressing my opinion.
<BR><BR>I am saddened but not surprised how they are defending the point that
self admitted and convicted child molesters have rights and that representing
those rights and fighting for their unsupervised release from prison is an
honorable profession. It just exposes their true selves. Letting child
molesters and other predators out of jail to do harm is exactly what is WRONG
with this country's judicial system. They are more concerned about the rights
of men that molest little six year old girls then the little six year old
girls. What a sick and twisted way to set priorities!<BR><BR>Who's fault do
you honestly think it is when a convicted child molester is freed and gets a
hold of another child? Who argued for his release? I will tell you who,
lawyers that think they got rights and argue for their release, that is who.
Those lawyers decide and take those actions. It is messed up I tell you. And
I'll bet $100 that was not what the founding fathers had in mind when they
wrote the Constitution. <BR><BR>I also am ashamed of their defense of
terrorists that have murderously killed thousands of Americans, men, women,
and children. It shows their total reckless endangerment and lack of
concern for the well being for this nation and those in it. Are they on
our side? There is a huge question mark as to who's side they are on. Were
they cheering or crying when the twin towers fell? I wonder.
<BR><BR>Just once I would like to hear some of these elitists express their
hatred towards others that have wronged this nation, rather then defend them.
Just once I would like to hear them praise the United States, admit there is a
God above them, and that terrorism is always wrong. They instead declare
themselves as Gods, demand their way of thinking be the only way of thinking,
their form of justice be the only justice even if it results in the death or
molestation of the innocent, and their opinion be the only one that be
expressed.<BR><BR>What I say may be chilling and dreadful, but it is not
slanderous, because it is true, it is true because that is what is typed from
finger tips and spoken from their lips.
<BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><B><I>Betsy Dickow
<betsyd@turbonet.com></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Donovan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>You are more and more shrill and it is chilling
to read the slanderous and dreadful things you think. Please pull
yourself together and try to be civil.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Yours,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Betsy</FONT> </DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=kjajmix1@msn.com href="mailto:kjajmix1@msn.com">keely
emerinemix</A> ; <A title=sunilramalingam@hotmail.com
href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com">sunilramalingam@hotmail.com</A>
; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Sunday, September 17, 2006 3:30 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Spam] Re: [Vision2020] attacks that really matter</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><PRE><TT>Keely writes:<BR><BR>"We fear dark-skinned men of Middle Eastern descent because of the vicious <BR>actions of a few, but most of white America would be loath to hold Anglo men in <BR>wary suspicion, even though white youths are the ones committing school <BR>shootings and middle-aged white men are looting the pensions of American workers <BR>through Enron and other white-collar acts of economic violence."<BR><BR>What race baiting bullshit! When you are losing on a issue blame it on discrimination?<BR><BR>This has nothing to do with any person's race. It has to do with people being terrorists and<BR>killing other innocent people. Terrorists come in all races.<BR><BR>And for your information, I am too much of an idiot to know what race Sunil is. <BR>I still don't, and you know what, I don't care. It is
not the issue at hand. <BR><BR>And yes, I do think Keely caused the defeat of the MSD Bond. I had<BR>people all over this town telling me, by email, in person, etc,<BR> they<BR>cannot stand her and that is why they voted against the school levy. Dale Courtney<BR>loves her because she is the one that lowered his taxes. <BR><BR>Maybe she can link that to discrimination against women, or housewives or something. It<BR>doesn't have to make sense, nothing out of her ever does. <BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR></TT></PRE><BR><BR><B><I>keely
emerinemix <kjajmix1@msn.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">People
write me off list or call me to ask why I ever respond to Donovan,
<BR>particularly when he goes off the edge and accuses me of things like
<BR>destroying MSD by turning two-thirds of our neighbors against public
<BR>education -- singlehandedly. (Gee, and I had hoped to use my powers
for <BR>good, not evil. Bummer it didn't work out that way.
Dang.)<BR><BR>On a more serious note, let me just say that I am
disinclined to respond to <BR>Donovan when he writes about me, or about
things that have no real <BR>consequence. But there are things that
Donovan says via Vision 2020 that <BR>could, potentially, result in very
real consequences. One of them is his <BR>slanderous attacks against
Sunil Ramalingam.<BR><BR>The political climate of the day is dangerous.
It's dangerous to engage in <BR>public criticism of our government, it's
dangerous to defend people at home <BR>and abroad who are victims of any
form of oppression the White House doesn't <BR>recognize as terrorism,
and it's dangerous, frankly, to be very different <BR>from your
neighbor. By "dangerous," I don't mean that jack-booted thugs <BR>will
automatically drag you from your house, or that roaming bands of
<BR>vigilantes will beat you to a bloody pulp. I do mean that there is a
<BR>climate of hatred and hysteria in the U.S. now that makes speaking
out <BR>against any part of our "war on terrorism" risky to one's
reputation, <BR>livelihood, and perhaps even one's physical safety in
some communities.<BR><BR>We've defined the "other," and we presume to
know who he is simply because <BR>of a facet of "otherness" that we
believe we've identified. We fear <BR>dark-skinned men of Middle Eastern
descent because of the vicious actions of <BR>a few, but most of white
America would be loath to hold Anglo men in wary <BR>suspicion, even
though white youths are the ones committing school shootings <BR>and
middle-aged white men are looting the pensions of American workers
<BR>through Enron and other white-collar acts of economic violence. Even
people <BR>I had considered to be liberals acknowledge their unease and
disgust with <BR>"them" (Muslims, Middle-Eastern men, foreign students,
Sikhs, or anyone else <BR>who looks, believes, and acts differently
while possessing skin darker than <BR>theirs), and they do so with only
the vaguest sense of remorse. It is wrong <BR>in this or any other
political climate to accuse someone of siding with or <BR>defending
terrorists without clear, incontrovertible proof that that is, in
<BR>fact, true. But if Sunil were, say, a freckled guy named Kevin
O'Reilly, I <BR>doubt that the sneering accusations would gather much
traction. That he <BR>isn't a towheaded Anglo guy ought to be neither
here nor there, but Sunil <BR>has volunteered that he has been called
many ugly things because of his race <BR>and coloration, and in a
country obsessed with finding "them" -- those <BR>seemingly
normal-looking people who are really out to hurt us -- such
<BR>accusations of sympathy for terrorists are particularly odious and
<BR>particularly damaging. Read Dick Sherwin's comments earlier today:
the <BR>idea that perhaps Sunil is showing "his true self" is, frankly,
chilling in <BR>the context of the day.<BR><BR>I have stated before that
Sunil doesn't need my defense, nor has he ever <BR>asked for it. I've
seen Sunil twice in my life, and the most recent was <BR>last month, at
the sentencing of my friend Bob on drug charges. I love Bob <BR>and I'm
grateful for Sunil's work on his case; more than that, I think that
<BR>the work Sunil does represents the very best part of what makes
America <BR>different from nations groaning under the burden of fascist,
theological <BR>oppression. I would be morally wrong to remain silent
when his character is <BR>attacked -- even if it means engaging with
Donovan. I'm sorry he's as angry <BR>with me as he is, but he has my
prayers anyway; other than that, I spend <BR>little time thinking about
it all.<BR><BR>The stakes in this game are high, too high to assume that
the maturity or <BR>intelligence of the accuser in any way negates or
mutes the effect on the <BR>accused.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR>From: Donovan
Arnold <DONOVANJARNOLD2005 @yahoo.com=""><BR>To: keely emerinemix
<KJAJMIX1 @msn.com="">, sunilramalingam@hotmail.com,
<BR>vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Keely -- not a
wielder of great power<BR>Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 01:56:34 -0700
(PDT)<BR><BR>Keely,<BR><BR>For someone that claims they do not care what
I think or say you sure <BR>spend a lot of time addressing my
comments.<BR><BR>I NEVER referred to Sunil's defense of terrorists in
reference to his <BR>workplace. I was referring to his defense of
terrorists on Vision2020, I <BR>think I made that clear, repeatedly. If
you read my entire email and <BR>clicked the links I provided you would
know that.<BR><BR>As to the defense of already convicted child
molesters, Sunil has already <BR>stated that he does that. You agreed
that was great and important, that is <BR>your right, I don't agree with
that.<BR><BR>As to your ability to wield power, I think you have
demonstrated a great <BR>deal of power to destroy the Moscow School
District and enrage its <BR>supporters. MSD lost revenue and support to
replace Russell and West Park <BR>by attaching it to a financially
irresponsible plan, that to me is a great <BR>deal of power. I haven't
know anyone to turn 63% of Moscow against <BR>education, but you have
that power Keely.<BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR>keely emerinemix
<KJAJMIX1 @msn.com="">wrote: Donovan,<BR><BR>I couldn't care less what
you think of me, and I'm sure Sunil is not<BR>terribly bothered by what
you think of him. And I am well acquainted with<BR>the definition and
criteria for slander. It is slanderous for you to say<BR>that Sunil
"defends terrorists," particularly given his position as a
public<BR>defender. The context of "defending" is, in this case, that he
works as an<BR>attorney and "defender" of those accused of crimes.
Should you ever be<BR>accused of a crime, I would presume that you would
be cognizant of the<BR>importance of his work.<BR><BR>I am a "master" of
nothing, really, and if I wielded the power to make<BR>people believe
the sun really does come up in the West, my kitchen would be<BR>a
helluva lot cleaner right now, such would be my influence over
the<BR>teenagers living with me. Frankly, the only thing I would do if I
had such<BR>tremendous powers of persuasion would be to offer to meet
with you to<BR>discuss real issues like real adults. However, I suspect
that would be as<BR>fruitful as my clearing my plugged kitchen sink by
inhaling the contents of<BR>the drain, and only slightly less
unpleasant.<BR><BR>keely<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>From:
Donovan Arnold<BR>To: Sunil Ramalingam ,
vision2020@moscow.com<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense
of Terrorists<BR>andConvictedChild Molesters<BR>Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006
14:02:45 -0700 (PDT)<BR><BR>Jackie,<BR><BR>I never stated that Sunil
supports terrorism and child molestation, that<BR>is preposterous,
re-read what I wrote. I said he defends those that
do.<BR><BR>Keely,<BR><BR>The definition of slander is the saying of
something that is false and<BR>damaging. If it is true, it isn't
slander. Sunil himself admits to<BR>defending convicted child
molesters:<BR><BR><BR>"It is true that I defend convicted child
molesters at sentencing<BR><BR>hearings that occur after a client has
been convicted by a jury"<BR><BR>Sunil
Ramalingam--<BR>http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-September/035436.html<BR><BR><BR>Sunil,<BR><BR>I
am not going to try and argue with you. For you are the master
of<BR>convincing the jury that the Sun really rises in the West
depending on ones<BR>point of view.<BR><BR>I am sure that you can argue
that I got the context wrong in some of <BR>your<BR>posts, but after 20+
such posts over 2.5 years it is hard to write all
them<BR>off.<BR><BR>FYI, I did support Sami Omar. He was living in UI
Family Housing at the<BR>time he was abducted. I represented Family
Housing in the UI student<BR>government at the time. I defended Sami in
student council and even brought<BR>his family there, which was even
aired on public television. I kept in<BR>contact with John Dickinson
about what was going at the trial in Boise.<BR>That case is different,
because it was a domestic case and there was no<BR>evidence whatsoever
that Sami was a terrorist, in fact it all pointed in<BR>the opposite
direction. Further, Sami was not saying he was planning on<BR>killing
Americans when he gets out like those detained overseas. And,
at<BR>least one member of Sami's family was born right here in
Moscow.<BR><BR>I don't think the government can detain someone forever
without at least<BR>trying to find out if someone is guilty. But letting
them go if they say<BR>"Death to America" is just to risky when they are
capable of acting on it.<BR><BR>My disagreement with you Sunil, is that
you clearly are brilliant, yet<BR>rather than using your talents to
defend victims in our society, you use<BR>your wit and experience to
defend convicted child molesters.<BR><BR>I am not arguing you are not
doing your job, or you are not good at it.<BR>I am arguing that your job
should be something more productive and<BR>meaningful then the release
of child molesters and the scum of the earth<BR>when you know they are
guilty.<BR><BR>I am sure you with your big brain will justify that in
your own mind. <BR>But<BR>I think anyone with a heart will ask WHY the
child molesters get a good<BR>lawyer and trial when there are so many
other more deserving and wronged<BR>people with their rights being
stepped on. They should be a higher priority<BR>to you and any lawyer
concerned about justice.<BR><BR>Best,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR>Sunil
Ramalingam wrote: Tom,<BR><BR>It is true that I defend convicted child
molesters at sentencing hearings<BR>that occur after a client has been
convicted by a jury (or a judge in<BR>juvenile cases) at the sentencing
hearing and in subsequent legal<BR>proceedings, or at a post-conviction
hearing filed by a client who is<BR>usually in prison. If a convicted
child molester is charged with a new<BR>crime, then I may defend that
person. As a public defender I don't judge my<BR>clients; there is no
shortage of people ready to do this (regardless of how<BR>much or how
little information they have about the crime or the criminal)<BR>and
it's not my place or job to do so. I try to represent them to the
best<BR>of my ability, and I don't apologize for this.<BR><BR>I have
never represented a convicted terrorist as a lawyer, though I
would<BR>were I to be appointed to do so or if I were retained to do so.
I did<BR>represent a witness in Sami al Hussein's case, and am happy I
was able to<BR>offer him assistance. Perhaps Donovan would like to
insult me for doing so.<BR><BR>As one who believes our judicial system
has underlying principles, I believe<BR>that all people who are held
have the right to due process and a fair and<BR>proper hearing. I do not
believe that we have the right to imprison people,<BR>no matter what we
label them, forever, or to try them in kangaroo courts.<BR>This is a
defense of legal principle and human rights. I consider it a<BR>defense
of our country, and the notion that we have enduring principles<BR>These
are beliefs that Donovan neither shares nor supports. He is a fan
of<BR>expedience.<BR><BR>Though Donovan does not support the Iraq war,
he appears to find the Bush<BR>Administration infallible once they
arrest or confine a Muslim. At that<BR>point he believes it is
appropriate to hold that person indefinately. I<BR>find this position
shameful and disgusting, and Donovan finds me repugnant<BR>because of
this, I am willing to live with the loss of his approval.<BR><BR>It is
interesting to note the subject line of Donovan's most recent
post.<BR>He has claimed he only attacks those who attack him. Most
recently he<BR>incorrectly made fun of Keely's spelling; I asked him if
he wanted the same<BR>done to him. Since we all post all too quickly, we
all make spelling<BR>errors, and few of us would really want to have our
own posts criticized for<BR>our typos. This is the point I was
making.<BR><BR>Donovan, in the thoughtful and Christian response we have
all learned so<BR>well, responds by attacking my character in a way that
has the smallest germ<BR>of truth but is intended to be a slur. I have
written him offline and<BR>pointed out that hatred of Middle Easterners
has often resulted in racial<BR>slurs and threats being directed towards
me; I have told him that I consider<BR>his calling me a defender of
terrorists could actually be harmful to me.<BR>You see the effect (or is
it 'affect' Donovan?) my request has had on him.<BR><BR>Of course, this
is the man, or aging adolescent, who has suggested it would<BR>benefit
the gene pool if children were to die playing in construction
sites<BR>that should be off-limits if their parents fail to provide
proper<BR>supervision, so I would be foolish to expect better of
him.<BR><BR>Sunil<BR><BR><BR>>From: "Tom Hansen"<BR>>To: "'Donovan
Arnold'" , "'Sunil<BR>>Ramalingam'" ,<BR>>Subject: RE:
[Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists
and<BR>>ConvictedChild Molesters<BR>>Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006
07:05:37 -0700<BR>><BR>>Arnold
-<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Your statement, here on a public
listserve, that Sunil Ramalingam defends<BR>>convicted child
molesters and convicted terrorists, reflects upon your<BR>lack<BR>>of
maturity and sense of decency, and in virtually all litigious
circles<BR>>maybe considered
libelous.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Name ONE convicted child
molester which Sunil has defended!<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Name
ONE convicted terrorist which Sunil has
defended!<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Failing either of these
requests, you owe Sunil a VERY meaningful and <BR>VERY<BR>>public
apology.<BR>><BR>><BR>><BR>>Tom
Hansen<BR>><BR>>Vandalville,
Idaho<BR>><BR><BR><BR>=======================================================<BR>List
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