<pre><tt>Keely writes:<br><br>"We fear dark-skinned men of Middle Eastern descent because of the vicious <br>actions of a few, but most of white America would be loath to hold Anglo men in <br>wary suspicion, even though white youths are the ones committing school <br>shootings and middle-aged white men are looting the pensions of American workers <br>through Enron and other white-collar acts of economic violence."<br><br>What race baiting bullshit! When you are losing on a issue blame it on discrimination?<br><br>This has nothing to do with any person's race. It has to do with people being terrorists and<br>killing other innocent people. Terrorists come in all races.<br><br>And for your information, I am too much of an idiot to know what race Sunil is. <br>I still don't, and you know what, I don't care. It is not the issue at hand. <br><br>And yes, I do think Keely caused the defeat of the MSD Bond. I had<br>people all over this town telling me, by email, in person, etc,
they<br>cannot stand her and that is why they voted against the school levy. Dale Courtney<br>loves her because she is the one that lowered his taxes. <br><br>Maybe she can link that to discrimination against women, or housewives or something. It<br>doesn't have to make sense, nothing out of her ever does. <br><br>Best,<br><br>_DJA<br></tt></pre> <br><br><b><i>keely emerinemix <kjajmix1@msn.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> People write me off list or call me to ask why I ever respond to Donovan, <br>particularly when he goes off the edge and accuses me of things like <br>destroying MSD by turning two-thirds of our neighbors against public <br>education -- singlehandedly. (Gee, and I had hoped to use my powers for <br>good, not evil. Bummer it didn't work out that way. Dang.)<br><br>On a more serious note, let me just say that I am disinclined to respond to
<br>Donovan when he writes about me, or about things that have no real <br>consequence. But there are things that Donovan says via Vision 2020 that <br>could, potentially, result in very real consequences. One of them is his <br>slanderous attacks against Sunil Ramalingam.<br><br>The political climate of the day is dangerous. It's dangerous to engage in <br>public criticism of our government, it's dangerous to defend people at home <br>and abroad who are victims of any form of oppression the White House doesn't <br>recognize as terrorism, and it's dangerous, frankly, to be very different <br>from your neighbor. By "dangerous," I don't mean that jack-booted thugs <br>will automatically drag you from your house, or that roaming bands of <br>vigilantes will beat you to a bloody pulp. I do mean that there is a <br>climate of hatred and hysteria in the U.S. now that makes speaking out <br>against any part of our "war on terrorism" risky to one's reputation, <br>livelihood,
and perhaps even one's physical safety in some communities.<br><br>We've defined the "other," and we presume to know who he is simply because <br>of a facet of "otherness" that we believe we've identified. We fear <br>dark-skinned men of Middle Eastern descent because of the vicious actions of <br>a few, but most of white America would be loath to hold Anglo men in wary <br>suspicion, even though white youths are the ones committing school shootings <br>and middle-aged white men are looting the pensions of American workers <br>through Enron and other white-collar acts of economic violence. Even people <br>I had considered to be liberals acknowledge their unease and disgust with <br>"them" (Muslims, Middle-Eastern men, foreign students, Sikhs, or anyone else <br>who looks, believes, and acts differently while possessing skin darker than <br>theirs), and they do so with only the vaguest sense of remorse. It is wrong <br>in this or any other political climate to accuse
someone of siding with or <br>defending terrorists without clear, incontrovertible proof that that is, in <br>fact, true. But if Sunil were, say, a freckled guy named Kevin O'Reilly, I <br>doubt that the sneering accusations would gather much traction. That he <br>isn't a towheaded Anglo guy ought to be neither here nor there, but Sunil <br>has volunteered that he has been called many ugly things because of his race <br>and coloration, and in a country obsessed with finding "them" -- those <br>seemingly normal-looking people who are really out to hurt us -- such <br>accusations of sympathy for terrorists are particularly odious and <br>particularly damaging. Read Dick Sherwin's comments earlier today: the <br>idea that perhaps Sunil is showing "his true self" is, frankly, chilling in <br>the context of the day.<br><br>I have stated before that Sunil doesn't need my defense, nor has he ever <br>asked for it. I've seen Sunil twice in my life, and the most recent was
<br>last month, at the sentencing of my friend Bob on drug charges. I love Bob <br>and I'm grateful for Sunil's work on his case; more than that, I think that <br>the work Sunil does represents the very best part of what makes America <br>different from nations groaning under the burden of fascist, theological <br>oppression. I would be morally wrong to remain silent when his character is <br>attacked -- even if it means engaging with Donovan. I'm sorry he's as angry <br>with me as he is, but he has my prayers anyway; other than that, I spend <br>little time thinking about it all.<br><br>The stakes in this game are high, too high to assume that the maturity or <br>intelligence of the accuser in any way negates or mutes the effect on the <br>accused.<br><br>keely<br><br>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 @yahoo.com=""><br>To: keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 @msn.com="">, sunilramalingam@hotmail.com, <br>vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Keely -- not a
wielder of great power<br>Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2006 01:56:34 -0700 (PDT)<br><br>Keely,<br><br> For someone that claims they do not care what I think or say you sure <br>spend a lot of time addressing my comments.<br><br> I NEVER referred to Sunil's defense of terrorists in reference to his <br>workplace. I was referring to his defense of terrorists on Vision2020, I <br>think I made that clear, repeatedly. If you read my entire email and <br>clicked the links I provided you would know that.<br><br> As to the defense of already convicted child molesters, Sunil has already <br>stated that he does that. You agreed that was great and important, that is <br>your right, I don't agree with that.<br><br> As to your ability to wield power, I think you have demonstrated a great <br>deal of power to destroy the Moscow School District and enrage its <br>supporters. MSD lost revenue and support to replace Russell and West Park <br>by attaching it to a financially
irresponsible plan, that to me is a great <br>deal of power. I haven't know anyone to turn 63% of Moscow against <br>education, but you have that power Keely.<br><br> Best,<br><br> _DJA<br><br>keely emerinemix <kjajmix1 @msn.com=""> wrote: Donovan,<br><br>I couldn't care less what you think of me, and I'm sure Sunil is not<br>terribly bothered by what you think of him. And I am well acquainted with<br>the definition and criteria for slander. It is slanderous for you to say<br>that Sunil "defends terrorists," particularly given his position as a public<br>defender. The context of "defending" is, in this case, that he works as an<br>attorney and "defender" of those accused of crimes. Should you ever be<br>accused of a crime, I would presume that you would be cognizant of the<br>importance of his work.<br><br>I am a "master" of nothing, really, and if I wielded the power to make<br>people believe the sun really does come up in the West, my kitchen would be<br>a
helluva lot cleaner right now, such would be my influence over the<br>teenagers living with me. Frankly, the only thing I would do if I had such<br>tremendous powers of persuasion would be to offer to meet with you to<br>discuss real issues like real adults. However, I suspect that would be as<br>fruitful as my clearing my plugged kitchen sink by inhaling the contents of<br>the drain, and only slightly less unpleasant.<br><br>keely<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>From: Donovan Arnold<br>To: Sunil Ramalingam , vision2020@moscow.com<br>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists<br>andConvictedChild Molesters<br>Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 14:02:45 -0700 (PDT)<br><br>Jackie,<br><br> I never stated that Sunil supports terrorism and child molestation, that<br>is preposterous, re-read what I wrote. I said he defends those that do.<br><br> Keely,<br><br> The definition of slander is the saying of something that is false and<br>damaging. If it is
true, it isn't slander. Sunil himself admits to<br>defending convicted child molesters:<br><br><br>"It is true that I defend convicted child molesters at sentencing<br><br>hearings that occur after a client has been convicted by a jury"<br><br> Sunil Ramalingam--<br>http://mailman.fsr.com/pipermail/vision2020/2006-September/035436.html<br><br><br> Sunil,<br><br> I am not going to try and argue with you. For you are the master of<br>convincing the jury that the Sun really rises in the West depending on ones<br>point of view.<br><br> I am sure that you can argue that I got the context wrong in some of <br>your<br>posts, but after 20+ such posts over 2.5 years it is hard to write all them<br>off.<br><br>FYI, I did support Sami Omar. He was living in UI Family Housing at the<br>time he was abducted. I represented Family Housing in the UI student<br>government at the time. I defended Sami in student council and even brought<br>his family there, which was
even aired on public television. I kept in<br>contact with John Dickinson about what was going at the trial in Boise.<br>That case is different, because it was a domestic case and there was no<br>evidence whatsoever that Sami was a terrorist, in fact it all pointed in<br>the opposite direction. Further, Sami was not saying he was planning on<br>killing Americans when he gets out like those detained overseas. And, at<br>least one member of Sami's family was born right here in Moscow.<br><br> I don't think the government can detain someone forever without at least<br>trying to find out if someone is guilty. But letting them go if they say<br>"Death to America" is just to risky when they are capable of acting on it.<br><br> My disagreement with you Sunil, is that you clearly are brilliant, yet<br>rather than using your talents to defend victims in our society, you use<br>your wit and experience to defend convicted child molesters.<br><br> I am not arguing
you are not doing your job, or you are not good at it.<br>I am arguing that your job should be something more productive and<br>meaningful then the release of child molesters and the scum of the earth<br>when you know they are guilty.<br><br> I am sure you with your big brain will justify that in your own mind. <br>But<br>I think anyone with a heart will ask WHY the child molesters get a good<br>lawyer and trial when there are so many other more deserving and wronged<br>people with their rights being stepped on. They should be a higher priority<br>to you and any lawyer concerned about justice.<br><br> Best,<br><br> _DJA<br><br>Sunil Ramalingam wrote: Tom,<br><br>It is true that I defend convicted child molesters at sentencing hearings<br>that occur after a client has been convicted by a jury (or a judge in<br>juvenile cases) at the sentencing hearing and in subsequent legal<br>proceedings, or at a post-conviction hearing filed by a client who is<br>usually
in prison. If a convicted child molester is charged with a new<br>crime, then I may defend that person. As a public defender I don't judge my<br>clients; there is no shortage of people ready to do this (regardless of how<br>much or how little information they have about the crime or the criminal)<br>and it's not my place or job to do so. I try to represent them to the best<br>of my ability, and I don't apologize for this.<br><br>I have never represented a convicted terrorist as a lawyer, though I would<br>were I to be appointed to do so or if I were retained to do so. I did<br>represent a witness in Sami al Hussein's case, and am happy I was able to<br>offer him assistance. Perhaps Donovan would like to insult me for doing so.<br><br>As one who believes our judicial system has underlying principles, I believe<br>that all people who are held have the right to due process and a fair and<br>proper hearing. I do not believe that we have the right to imprison
people,<br>no matter what we label them, forever, or to try them in kangaroo courts.<br>This is a defense of legal principle and human rights. I consider it a<br>defense of our country, and the notion that we have enduring principles<br>These are beliefs that Donovan neither shares nor supports. He is a fan of<br>expedience.<br><br>Though Donovan does not support the Iraq war, he appears to find the Bush<br>Administration infallible once they arrest or confine a Muslim. At that<br>point he believes it is appropriate to hold that person indefinately. I<br>find this position shameful and disgusting, and Donovan finds me repugnant<br>because of this, I am willing to live with the loss of his approval.<br><br>It is interesting to note the subject line of Donovan's most recent post.<br>He has claimed he only attacks those who attack him. Most recently he<br>incorrectly made fun of Keely's spelling; I asked him if he wanted the same<br>done to him. Since we all post all
too quickly, we all make spelling<br>errors, and few of us would really want to have our own posts criticized for<br>our typos. This is the point I was making.<br><br>Donovan, in the thoughtful and Christian response we have all learned so<br>well, responds by attacking my character in a way that has the smallest germ<br>of truth but is intended to be a slur. I have written him offline and<br>pointed out that hatred of Middle Easterners has often resulted in racial<br>slurs and threats being directed towards me; I have told him that I consider<br>his calling me a defender of terrorists could actually be harmful to me.<br>You see the effect (or is it 'affect' Donovan?) my request has had on him.<br><br>Of course, this is the man, or aging adolescent, who has suggested it would<br>benefit the gene pool if children were to die playing in construction sites<br>that should be off-limits if their parents fail to provide proper<br>supervision, so I would be foolish to expect
better of him.<br><br>Sunil<br><br><br> >From: "Tom Hansen"<br> >To: "'Donovan Arnold'" , "'Sunil<br> >Ramalingam'" ,<br> >Subject: RE: [Vision2020] Sunil and His Defense of Terrorists and<br> >ConvictedChild Molesters<br> >Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 07:05:37 -0700<br> ><br> >Arnold -<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >Your statement, here on a public listserve, that Sunil Ramalingam defends<br> >convicted child molesters and convicted terrorists, reflects upon your<br>lack<br> >of maturity and sense of decency, and in virtually all litigious circles<br> >maybe considered libelous.<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >Name ONE convicted child molester which Sunil has defended!<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >Name ONE convicted terrorist which Sunil has defended!<br> ><br> ><br> ><br> >Failing either of these requests, you owe Sunil a VERY meaningful and <br>VERY<br> >public apology.<br>
><br> ><br> ><br> >Tom Hansen<br> ><br> >Vandalville, Idaho<br> ><br><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> http://www.fsr.net<br> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>=======================================================<br><br><br><br>---------------------------------<br>Why keep checking for Mail? The all-new Yahoo! Mail shows you when there are<br>new messages.<br><br><br>=======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br> http://www.fsr.net<br> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>=======================================================<br><br>_________________________________________________________________<br>Check the weather
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