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Donovan,<br>
<br>
Your position makes sense to me, although I'd like them to get some of
the alternate fuels in place and accessible before adding the tax.
There shouldn't be a time when the red apples cost 1$ and there are no
green apples. I see this happening slowly, but in a few years it
should be doable.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid20060824170857.84298.qmail@web38108.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
type="cite">Paul,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the reply. I do agree that the major problem with tax
increases on the gas is how it impacts poorer families. The taxes
collected should be used primarily to address that problem. A $3 a
gallon tax would solve many problems. The idea though is not to have
families paying $7.50 a gallon. The idea is to get them to buy another
car in the next five years that runs on something else besides the
$7.50 a gallon gasoline. To instead, buy a car that uses an alternative
fuel that is in their price range ($4 a gallon in five years, or
today's price). If gasoline is $7.50 or higher, there are numerous
other cheaper alternatives they would move to, instead of sticking with
the most expensive means of transportation. <br>
<br>
My guess is that most people are going to buy another car in the next 5
years anyway. If energy suppliers know that people won't buy gas, and
if buyers now know it would cheaper to invest in a vehicles that does
not run on gasoline, they will not buy gasoline cars--ending our fossil
fuel dependence for transportation. <br>
<br>
Consider it like apples. You have green apples and red apples. Right
now, there are only red apples. If you introduce green apples and
charge 45 cents for the apple, and raise the price of the red apples
from 45 cents to $1, people are going to buy the green apples instead,
not the red ones. To say that hurts the poor, is only accurate if the
poor decide to continue to keep buying the red apples instead of
switching to green ones like everybody. I hope that makes more since to
you. The cost increase would not be the gasoline tax, the cost would be
in the conversion of buying a gas powered car to an alternatively
powered vehicle. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
_DJA<br>
<br>
<b><i>Paul Rumelhart <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com"><godshatter@yahoo.com></a></i></b> wrote:
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Donovan,<br>
<br>
I agree with you about the gas-tax idea. It seems to have helped in
Europe (from what I understand). It may work the same way here, too.
We have a different culture than in Europe, though, so I'm not sure if
it will work as well or not but it's worth a shot. Unfortunately,
though, it's the person living on a limited income that feels it the
most.<br>
<br>
The best way, according to the numbers, to maintain the human
population at a given amount (short of shooting people for jaywalking)
is for more of the human population to become first-world instead of
third-world citizens. The US numbers are skewed because of the baby
boomers, but I believe I read somewhere that the birth-rate now is
actually negative (more people are dying than are being born each
year). I know that Japan is having problems because of their negative
birth-rate. I don't know how Europe's doing.<br>
<br>
As for thinking BIG, I agree. Just remember that lots of little
numbers can add up to a big number, too.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid20060824141844.34355.qmail@web38103.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
type="cite">I don't think eating lettuce and carrot sticks is going to
save the environment, no matter how many you eat and everyone else. The
only way to do it is to raise the price of gasoline and reduce the
human population. If the world raises the price of gasoline to $7.50 a
gallon over the next 5 years it would force everyone economically to
switch to an alternative form of fuel that would be better on the
Earth, maybe even reverse the effects.<br>
<br>
The second, is to maintain the human population. The Earth cannot
sustain 12 billion people for very long, it just cannot--even if they
just eat tofu, cabbage and sprouts. The current birth rate of the world
it will shortly be 12 billion. There is only three ways to stop
overpopulation; mass murder, mass sterilization and abortion, or
economic enforcement. I prefer economic enforcement. Making it so
expensive to raise a child so that only 1.8 children per fertile woman
are born, or zero population growth, is the way to go. Many Western
countries are going this route already. China uses law enforcement and
forced abortion to control their population--I don't want to go that
route.<br>
<br>
You guys are thinking so small, so tiny. It doesn't help save the earth
even a day to do these tiny things. If the Earth's environment is going
to be saved, it has to be on a HUGE scale, all over the world, and
people will have to be forced to do it by <span
style="font-weight: bold; text-decoration: underline; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">economic
necessity</span><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">.</span> Trying to
do it politically, socially, educating, or choosing one by one to
change and start caring for the world--it ain't gonna happen that way
folks. Think BIG for a BIG Problem. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
_DJA<br>
<br>
<b><i>Nils Peterson <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:nils_peterson@wsu.edu"><nils_peterson@wsu.edu></a></i></b>
wrote:
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style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">
I'm not too surprised that there was not an outpouring of personal
actions<br>
to my previous question -- I'm about immobilized by the challenge as
well.<br>
<br>
Carbon neutral is an interesting concept, but knowing if something is
carbon<br>
neutral is hard, and, given that most things include a transportation<br>
element, its going to be hard to be neutral.<br>
<br>
Megan's veggie idea, as subsequently modified by other suggestions is
one<br>
that resonates for me -- eat lower on the carbon input chain, which
means<br>
eat local. That's something I can work on.<br>
<br>
SO now, I want to move the discussion out a level, what are WE, as
Moscow,<br>
gonna do?<br>
<br>
I got a piece of good news last night, PCEI has converted a vehicle to<br>
bio-diesel and they are talking about how to work with other fleets in
town<br>
to convert them, and have a local bio-diesel supply. I know a couple
other<br>
bio-diesel drivers around already and having a supply closer than
Lewiston<br>
would be welcome news to them.<br>
<br>
The COOP gives a discount for getting there by foot. One of the
businesses<br>
in Alturas Park (Anatech maybe?) gives employees a financial incentive
per<br>
mile that they travel to work by foot power. WSU & UI run a bus
between the<br>
campuses and its free to students and employees (but UI almost cut the<br>
service this summer -- sad statement on their green commitment)<br>
<br>
What else can we, in whatever collective groups, begin doing?<br>
<br>
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