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I think we need to also look into scrubbing as much CO2 out of the air
as possible. This can mainly be done by planting more permanent trees
and plants. While I'm sure we can do our part here by planting trees
on clearcut land, this would be most effective in other areas.
Regrowing the rain forests, planting kelp beds, and working to reclaim
desert land would go a long way towards helping the CO2 situation. We
might need nuclear power and sea-water desalination plants to make this
really work, though.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Ted Moffett wrote:
<blockquote
cite="midd03f69e0608221225jfe5c7adr35a5e6dbc9362ade@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div>Nils et. al.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>The answer is simple, ha, ha, ha: the human race must reduce in
absolute amounts how much CO2 we dump into the atmosphere... It seems
nearly inevitable that this will not occur for the foreseeable future,
however. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Of course driving as little as possible helps, or driving a more
fuel efficient alternatively powered car or truck. The plug in hybrids
allow the advantages of a gas engine combined with charging the
batteries by solar or wind. These vehicles may be available widely
soon. Development planning and transportation systems need to
be adjusted to encourage less driving, not more, as you implied in your
comment about the bypass. Raising the CAFE standards is a no brainer,
that as far as I know is currently dead on Capitol Hill (unless recent
legislation has addressed this), given current "leadership."
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There are many small steps that can be taken locally to reduce
CO2 emissions, or increase CO2 sequestration: gardens on Moscow city
rooftops downtown? Sounds silly, I suppose, but every little change
adds up. I posted info to Vision2020 on the US Conference of Mayors
Climate Change Initiative that offers steps for cities to take to
locally address climate change. My post sunk on Visioin2020 like a
stone... </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I have been debating the fossil fuel CO2 emission equation, and
solutions, with a friend who teaches environmental science, and we
speculated: How much fossil fuel sourced CO2 emissions are released to
build a new fuel efficient car? Quite a lot, I assume. We had trouble
finding reliable data. But driving an older less fuel efficient car
(depending on the gap between the MPG of the older car and newer
hybrid, let us say) for limited use might be a more CO2 efficient
solution than buying that new hybrid and supporting all the CO2
emissions that went into resource extraction, manufacturing, and
transporting the new car to the dealership (from Japan?). </div>
<div> </div>
<div>It's so easy to overlook how fossil fuels are connected to
nearly every aspect of economic activity, and not count the "hidden"
fossil fuel costs of solutions to fossil fuel CO2 emissions. Like
someone charging their electric car off a coal fired electric
plant...absurd!
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I read one analysis of nuclear fission plants and the fossil
fuel penalty for their operation, uranium mining, constructing the
plants, and mothballing them which they inevitably must be, and the
efficiency in regards to CO2 emissions/energy output was about par with
a natural gas fired electric plant. So the idea nuclear fission plants
are so CO2 clean is not as sometimes claimed. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>There are two basic directions that can be taken to solve the
problem. One, modern industrial global civilization could downsize
energy consumption by orders of magnitude. Or two, develop
new practical widely applied CO2 neutral energy sources. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>We could discuss massive CO2 sequestration as a solution, but
given existing technology, this is only a partial solution. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The first option is a fairy tale scenario. It would demand
a massive downsizing of growth and economic development on a global
scale. The Earth Sciences Institute at Columbia University projects
that before the end of this century, China and India will have
far exceeded the USA in fossil fuel burning. By then US energy hogs
will be feeling the heat, both from climate change and the costs of
oil. Anyone who says we can use energy conservation, given current
global energy demands and the reality of the marketplace, to reduce the
absolute amounts of CO2 the human race is dumping into the atmosphere,
without new practical widely applied break through energy technologies,
has not done the math. Optimists are only hoping we can slow the
growth of the absolute amount of CO2 emissions. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The second solution seems the only real hope to solve the
problem. Many scientists think current efforts to introduce biofuels,
fuel cells, solar, wind and other "green" options will not provide
sufficient CO2 reductions to lower the absolute amounts of CO2 the
human race emits, given economic realities and energy demands, and are
only helpful but partial solutions.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>A massive "Apollo Project" sized effort to develop practical
nuclear fusion and CO2 sequestration, and other solutions, is promoted
by some. Fusion power could be the energy break through of human
history, though its practicality is still in doubt. And this option,
and the rapid development of other practical energy options, is not
something that local governments can tackle. We need the President of
the US to advocate hundreds of billions of dollars investment in
creating CO2 neutral energy and CO2 sequestration technology, including
fusion. And if the US can't lead the way for the rapid development of
new energy technologies, given we are the most wealthy nation on
Earth...
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I saw Gore's film "Inconvenient Truth" when it first hit the
Palouse in Pullman. I biked over to see it, of course. The film was
dumbed down, and did not attempt to present a full picture of the main
variables in climate change science, a very complex subject. But if it
helps change people's behavior... Will it? </div>
<div> </div>
<div>One daunting problem is that very few people really take the
threat of global warming seriously, even those who admit it is
happening. Some say it is not due to human causes to
any significant degree, or even if so, we will adapt to the changes.
That the human race must reduce CO2 emissions in absolute amounts or
catastrophic climate change will occur is too abstract or remote a
problem to seem real to many people. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Who seriously contemplates that what comes out of the average
US car or light truck tail pipe during one year of driving is about 5
tons of CO2 dumped into the atmosphere? You can't dump five tons of CO2
in someones yard to show them what they are doing. Well, maybe in
compressed tanks... one option being considered for CO2 sequestration
at coal fired plants: remove the CO2 and store it in tanks... or
inject it into the ground, not the atmosphere. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>With the USA having the most coal of any nation on earth, an
energy source that the USA can rely on long after oil markets have
pushed oil over $100 a barrel (only a question of when not
if), practical CO2 sequestration technology for coal fired plants would
be a major break through.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Modern civilisation is so integrated into the use of fossil
fuels at all levels that to question the wisdom of fossil fueled
transportation and energy, the inevitability of fossil fuel extraction
and burning with no end in sight, and the primacy of global
market driven capitalism and consumerism as a system that must continue
despite global warming, are questions even those who are fully aware of
the massive problems human induced catastrophic climate change will
create, don't want to face honestly, on all levels. It might mean
giving up aspects of our lifestyle that most do not want to sacrifice. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Even Al Gore's lifestyle, the hypocrite! Of course this
describes my behavior as well...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>As it has been put, modern globalized muti-national corporate
capitalism is a wholly owned subsidiary of Mother Earth... I can hear
the free market capitalism as religion devotees screaming at that one...</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There has been a deliberate effort to mock and delegitimize the
science that indicates global warming is a serious threat, work by
numerous climate change scientists that now reveal the overwhelming
consensus that human caused global warming is occurring at a rapid
rate.
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I saw Eugene Linden, author of "Winds of Change," giving a talk
and question and answer session on C-Span this past weekend. He noted
that the best selling book on the subject of global warming called it a
hoax aimed at filling the coffers of environmental scientists with
grant money. He also said that global warming may be the most critical
problem with overwhelming scientific evidence to take action ever to be
so ignored by the public and government. Linden really knew his stuff,
and was aware of the thinking of the major human caused global warming
skeptics (though there are only a few with credibility), ready to
answer their arguments: </div>
<div> </div>
<div><a onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="http://www.eugenelinden.com/" target="_blank">http://www.eugenelinden.com/</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>-----------</div>
<div>Ted Moffett<br>
<br>
</div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 8/22/06, <b
class="gmail_sendername">Nils Peterson</b> <<a
onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"
href="mailto:nils_peterson@wsu.edu" target="_blank">nils_peterson@wsu.edu
</a>> wrote:</span>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">So
did you see Al Gore's movie? My sister, the infamous 'Rock Doc' of the<br>
DNews went, prepared to debunk Gore's latest invention since the
Internet. <br>
She came away saying the science was solid, but not saying she had any<br>
actions in mind.<br>
<br>
My immediate thoughts are along the lines of conservation rather than<br>
running out to by a Prius.<br>
<br>
Which folds into another thought that has passed through v2020. I
posted a <br>
response to talk about making an 'internal bypass' of Hwy 8 along the
old RR<br>
route between downtown and UI. Aaron Ament later told me he'd biked the<br>
route to look closer.<br>
<br>
If we were to heed Gore and cut car trips down we wouldn't need the
bypass. <br>
Just a thought<br>
<br>
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</blockquote>
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