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Donovan,<br>
<br>
You say we have terrorists incarcerated at Gitmo, but how do you really
know that? I'd say we have, at best, suspected terrorists there. Some
of them may simply be suspected terrorist sympathizers, and others may
even be "just in the wrong place at the wrong time with the wrong
people with the wrong racial features wearing the wrong type of
clothing".<br>
<br>
To turn a "suspected terrorist" into a "convicted terrorist" requires a
court of law. To call them terrorists and treating them as sub-humans
with no evidence presented to a court is throwing some of our ideals
out the window. Personally, I'm tiring of throwing our ideals out the
window.<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Donovan Arnold wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid20060822202256.17537.qmail@web38115.mail.mud.yahoo.com"
type="cite">Sunil has stated repeatedly, that he believes that if we
cannot find each and every terrorist guilty of a crime by a trial, we
should let them go. Since it is not possible to try every terrorist and
get a conviction, and he knows this, and we cannot detain them
otherwise, Sunil is suggesting we let many of them go. I think that is
supporting the terrorists. Creating a situation where the US military
cannot defend us by placing the new and unprecedented restriction of a
trial and conviction for every foreign enemy combatant shooting at us
before we can lock them up until the conflict is over, cannot be
anything but favoring the enemy. <br>
<br>
I think that Sunil is dead right in his disagreement with Bush on
foreign policy for opposing torture.. But deadly wrong in making sure
every enemy of the United States gets a full paid trial on us before we
can defend the country. <br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
_DJA<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<b><i>Sunil Ramalingam <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:sunilramalingam@hotmail.com"><sunilramalingam@hotmail.com></a></i></b>
wrote:
<blockquote class="replbq"
style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;">
I've tried not to post responses to Donovan after Roger's comments a
couple <br>
of weeks ago, but I'm sick of his crap. First he and now Tony have made
the <br>
irresponsible and incorrect statements that I support terrorists or <br>
terrorism; certainly Donovan has made the claim that I only defend <br>
terrorists and sworn enemies of the U.S.<br>
<br>
I have tried to explain to Donovan offline with no success that I
oppose the <br>
prison in Guantanimo; I oppose the war in Iraq; I oppose the torture of
<br>
prisoners and the abandonment of the Geneva Convention; I oppose this <br>
administration's foreign policy. As far as I know, we're still allowed
to <br>
object to our govenrnment's actions. If he wants to say that means I
defend <br>
terrorists, then he's going to do that, but he's not going to be able
to <br>
defend his lies with anything I've said.<br>
<br>
I do object to Donovan's lies about me. I think he's making dangerous
and <br>
irresponsible statements about me, and I don't think I should have to
sit <br>
here and put up with them. Sure, I could say no one takes anything he
says <br>
seriously, but I have no idea who might come across his swill and
believe <br>
it.<br>
<br>
I never mentioned Tony's wife in my post. If Donovan read that in my
post I <br>
have to question his literacy.<br>
<br>
Tony told me I was not allowed to change the subject, and I made the <br>
apparently incomprehensible joke that he mistook himself for my wife. <br>
Donovan, get your big reading book and look up 'pronouns.' I did not
and <br>
would not make fun of Tony's wife. I don't know if he's married and
don't <br>
care.<br>
<br>
Tony, I have never said I think I'm intellectually superior to you.
Quit <br>
being so sensitive. I won't be comparing myself to Lincoln, and I'm no <br>
fancy pants lawyer. I don't think of myself as one, and I don't think
I'm <br>
better than anyone else because I'm a lawyer. But if you make incorrect
<br>
statements about a legal issue, after a while I'm going to point that
out to <br>
you, as I did with your First Amendment statements some time ago, and
as <br>
with your recent statements about freedom of expression.<br>
<br>
Sunil<br>
<br>
<br>
>From: Donovan Arnold <donovanjarnold2005 @yahoo.com=""><br>
>To: Joe Campbell <joekc @adelphia.net="">, Tony Simpson <br>
><tonytime @clearwire.net=""><br>
>CC: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] stop the false accusations against Sunil<br>
>Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2006 11:56:09 -0700 (PDT)<br>
><br>
>Sunil attacked Tony and made a reference to his wife. Why aren't
you <br>
>condemning that Joe? Is making references to people's relatives
that you <br>
>don't like now acceptable if the person is not a liberal, Joe.
Appears to <br>
>be the case.<br>
><br>
> I hope others join me in condemning attacks on people's relatives
and <br>
>spouses, and not defend people that do so.<br>
><br>
> I never said Sunil supported Terrorism, Joe. I said he defends <br>
>terrorists. Which he has done repeatedly. One can defend the person
<br>
>without condoning the actions of that person.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
><br>
> _DJA<br>
><br>
>Joe Campbell <joekc @adelphia.net=""> wrote: Tony,<br>
><br>
>It is one thing to call Sunil offensive names and accuse him of
being an <br>
>elitist. The first is just childish and the second merely indicates
that <br>
>you just don't know Sunil. Both of these sorts of things only make
me <br>
>laugh.<br>
><br>
>But in our contemporary context it is just plain irresponsible and
wrong <br>
>to suggest in anyway that Sunil is a supporter of terrorism. Both
you and <br>
>Donovan have made this absurd accusation -- neither one of you even
<br>
>attempting to support the claim in any way. You need to get a grip.<br>
><br>
>I hope that others will join me in condemning these kinds of
accusations.<br>
><br>
>--<br>
>Joe Campbell<br>
><br>
>---- Tony Simpson wrote:<br>
><br>
>=============<br>
>Suenil: Yep pal, I need to go and "oppress someone."<br>
><br>
>Anyone who supports terrorists instead of his own country I will
oppress.<br>
>Anyone who revels in rubbing everyone else's nose in his supposed<br>
>intellectual superiority I will oppress. Anyone who sees no
injustice in<br>
>the premeditated murder of the innocent, I will oppress. Anyone who
tries<br>
>to deny freedom of expression to those with whom they disagree, I
will<br>
>oppress. Anyone who wishes to weaken or destroy the institutions
that have<br>
>held civilization together, I will oppress.<br>
><br>
>So get used to it Lawyer Man, I'm not going anywhere.<br>
><br>
>Despising arrogant and smug elitists, --TONY<br>
>----- Original Message -----<br>
>From: "Sunil Ramalingam"<br>
>Cc:<br>
>Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:24 AM<br>
>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom<br>
><br>
><br>
> > Tony,<br>
> ><br>
> > You're the one who brings up my law degree, not me. Since you
inquired<br>
> > about how I passed the bar, I thought I'd answer you.<br>
> ><br>
> > If you're well-informed, Tony, you're hiding your light under
a bushel.<br>
> > Now<br>
> > I'll get out of your hair; you probably need to go oppress
someone.<br>
> ><br>
> > Sunil<br>
> ><br>
> ><br>
> >>From: "Tony Simpson"<br>
> >>To: "Sunil Ramalingam"<br>
> >>CC:<br>
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom<br>
> >>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 23:02:33 -0700<br>
> >><br>
> >>Sunil,<br>
> >><br>
> >>Me mistaking myself for your wife? I'm afraid I have
absolutely no idea<br>
> >>what you are talking about. But pal, that equation would
NEVER work out<br>
> >>THAT way. The reason for the "hon" comment is old news,
weren't you<br>
> >>paying<br>
> >>attention councilor?<br>
> >><br>
> >>Ya' know, Your fancy pants law degree really doesn't mean
SHIT to me,<br>
> >>Sunil. Abraham Lincoln had no formal schooling yet he was
as brilliant <br>
>and<br>
> >>persuasive as any "credentialed" man of his time. As it is
with you and<br>
> >>I.<br>
> >>We are both very well informed, just not necessarily in
the same exact<br>
> >>areas. You could really do with a dose of humility, Mr.
Constitutional<br>
> >>law<br>
> >>hotshot.<br>
> >><br>
> >>Now go sue somebody or something..... -Tony<br>
> >>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil Ramalingam"<br>
> >><br>
> >>Cc:<br>
> >>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:36 PM<br>
> >>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom<br>
> >><br>
> >><br>
> >>>For someone who comes across as a homophobe, Tony,
it's odd to find you<br>
> >>>mistaking yourself for my wife. However, it prepared
me for finding <br>
>your<br>
> >>>response to Andreas and your use of the endearment,
'Hon,' for him. <br>
>Hey,<br>
> >>>not that there's anything wrong with it, but does his
wife know about<br>
> >>>this?<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>But since you're neither she nor the boss of me, I
guess I'm allowed to<br>
> >>>change the subject.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>I will give you one clue about how I passed the bar
exam, since you<br>
> >>>brought<br>
> >>>it up: On the Constitutional law section, I discussed
the established<br>
> >>>law<br>
> >>>of the United States, not the imagined law and
jurisprudence of Tony<br>
> >>>Simpson. Until you're the Fuhrer, I will recommend
this approach to<br>
> >>>those<br>
> >>>preparing for that exam.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>I understand that you oppose flag burning. That puts
you with almost <br>
>the<br>
> >>>entire population of the United States, since this
hardly ever happens.<br>
> >>>I've never seen it in person; have you? But saying
it's not speech <br>
>does<br>
> >>>not<br>
> >>>make you right, even if you say it in multiple posts.
It's also pretty<br>
> >>>ineffective speech, but speech it still is.<br>
> >>><br>
> >>>Sunil<br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>>>From: "Tony Simpson"<br>
> >>>>To: "Sunil Ramalingam"<br>
> >>>>CC:<br>
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom<br>
> >>>>Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:29:17 -0700<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>Sunil,<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>No, you are not going to be allowed to change the
subject. Address my<br>
> >>>>point about the difference between license and
freedom.<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>Standing in opposition to double talking lawyers,
--Tony<br>
> >>>>----- Original Message ----- From: "Sunil
Ramalingam"<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>>Cc:<br>
> >>>>Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 9:44 AM<br>
> >>>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Celebrate freedom<br>
> >>>><br>
> >>>><br>
> >>><br>
> >>><br>
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