I think Wayne is operating under the assumption that a four way stop would necessarily increase safety. I don't think that is the proved case. <br> <br> Best,<br> <br> _DJA<br><br><b><i>Art Deco <deco@moscow.com></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"><title></title> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name="GENERATOR"> <div><font size="4">One problem at the center of this issue is the value question of which is more important: The risk to pedestrian (and vehicular) safety or increased vehicular throughput.</font></div> <div><font size="4"></font> </div> <div><font size="4">When I was very young, I lived in an area where safety was given a very high priority. This commitment was backed by signage and LEO enforcement with citations. Perhaps now more people are
more "me-oriented" with a higher concern for completing their tasks in a given time period than they are about the safety and activities of others. Have our values changed so that for many the importance of safety at D and Mountain View (and other risky intersections) is not a big concern for many.</font></div> <div><font size="4"></font> </div> <div><font size="4">The crosswalk near Tri-State continues being a problem. Yesterday a very visible pedestrian was almost hit by a motorist who apparently decided that if he honked his horn it was alright to speed through the crosswalk.</font></div> <div><font size="4"></font> </div> <div><font size="4">Because of the construction there is more traffic on Main through downtown. Pedestrians need to be aware of the increased peril by impatient drivers.</font></div> <div><font size="4"></font> </div> <div><font size="4">Part of this issue may also related to having a blasé city
manager who does not live in the city, hence does not make the observations the residents do, does not seem to care as much as some residents do, and does not have to face the comments of his neighbors about the city when he goes home.</font></div> <div><font size="4"></font> </div> <div><font size="4">W.</font></div> <div><font size="4"></font> </div> <div><font size="4"></font> </div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;"><b>From:</b> <a title="godshatter@yahoo.com" href="mailto:godshatter@yahoo.com">Paul Rumelhart</a> </div> <div><b>To:</b> <a title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</a> </div> <div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 21, 2006 3:46 PM</div> <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Line and 6th</div></div> <div><br></div>I'd also like to add that most drivers on the UI Campus are aware that students will be at the crosswalks and that they should stop for them. Campus is seen as a pedestrian-centered area, probably because of the habits the students have of just blindly walking into the intersections. This is how they've been taught through experience. At Mountain View and D streets, you're on a 35 mph road which many people think of as a road that is more traffic-centered than pedestrian-centered, although they should be thinking of it as the opposite at that intersection. There are also turn lanes at that intersection, making the crossing distance greater.<br><br>I'm behind the idea of a light there, it would be safer for everybody. I understand that
there are costs involved, but with the Junior High, the elementary school, and the water park there, I think it would be a lot safer.<br><br>As someone else posted, I think a four-way stop for now while a grant is being worked on would be a good place to start. I also like the idea of getting some more numbers tallied on the subject, but you have to do more than just maximize throughput. You have to maximise safety for the children even at the expense of driving time. Especially there. In my opinion, anyway.<br><br>Paul<br><br>Donovan Arnold wrote: <blockquote cite="mid20060821213505.58813.qmail@web38114.mail.mud.yahoo.com" type="cite">What are you people on crack? Line and 6th (a three way, not four way stop) is backed up for blocks several times a day. Cars are half way to Deakin every time I go through there. And college students don't all get out off classes at exactly the same time like they do on Mt. View and D. I don't use
that road. But I think people will be very upset if a four way stop is placed on that intersection instead of a stop light. Letting 20 cars go at a time is much faster then one at a time, and safer.<br><br>Best,<br><br>_DJA<br><br><b><i>Art Deco <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><deco@moscow.com></a></i></b> wrote: <blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"> <meta content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2963" name="GENERATOR"> <style></style> <div><font size="4">How do we know that a four-way stop at Mountain View and D will clog traffic for blocks? Do you have access to traffic studies and the engineered conclusions drawn from them the rest of us are ignorant of?</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font size="4">There are several busy intersections with four-way stops that function fine without clogging traffic for blocks:
Blaine and 6th, Blaine and White, Hayes and D, Line and 6th (although this can back up traffic for about one block on the east side at peak times, but no big deal), A and Line, are a few examples.</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font size="4">W.</font></div> <div style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">----- Original Message ----- <div style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0% 50%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial;"><b>From:</b> <a title="donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com" href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</a> </div> <div><b>To:</b> <a title="rhayes@turbonet.com" href="mailto:rhayes@turbonet.com">roger hayes</a> ; <a title="vision2020@moscow.com"
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</a> </div> <div><b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:22 AM</div> <div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Vision2020] Mountain View and D</div></div> <div><br></div>I am not for a stop sign on Mountain and D. I am however, for a stop light. A four way stop will have Mountain View and D street clogged for blocks. That will force more people into taking alternative routes speeding through neighborhood streets and down 6th Street (when and if that road ever reopens). <br><br>It sounds logical to put a four way stop there. But I think the volume of traffic is great and this will create greater problems on that corner and elsewhere in town. How much longer does it take for four cars to come to a stop, then go one at a time? Multiply that by the number of cars, if will a good 10-15 minutes longer to across town on that section of road. <br><br>Best,<br><br>_DJA<br><br><b><i>roger hayes <a
class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:rhayes@turbonet.com"><rhayes@turbonet.com></a></i></b> wrote: <blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;">> A timed light is an improvement, but kids and walkers cross that <br>> intersection from dawn to way past dark. The problem does not just <br>> occur during the morning and afternoon. A stop sign would be a cheap, <br>> effective way to slow the traffic enough so drivers would be more <br>> aware of children and pedestrians in the crosswalk. We'd probably want <br>> to leave the blinking yellow light though.<br><br>Roger Hayes<br><br>><br>>> I think the city has viewed Mt. View as an arterial for the increasing<br>>> numbers of houses on the outskirts of Moscow.<br>>> As a person who frequently crosses this intersection on
foot and by<br>>> bicycle, I think a 4 way stop sign at D and Mt. View is a good idea<br>>> indeed. People tend to really zip through that area. It will, however,<br>>> change the nature of Mt. View from commuting arterial to urban street.<br>>> But given all the schools, the pool, and rec. centers in the area, the<br>>> change will not be a bad thing.<br>><br>> Roger Hayes<br>><br>>> From: cynthia nichols <CYNTHIANN0 @mac.com=""><br>>> To: Bruce and Jean Livingston <JEANLIVINGSTON @turbonet.com=""><br>>> CC: john weber <JWEBER @ci.moscow.id.us="">, Nancy Chaney <br>>> <NCHANEY @moscow.com="">,<br>>> bill lambert <BLAMBERT @ci.moscow.id.us="">, Vision 2020<br>>> <VISION2020 @moscow.com="">, Robert Stout <BSTOUT @ci.moscow.id.us="">,<br>>> john dickinson <JOHNDICKINSON @moscow.com=""><br>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020]
Public Works Meeting<br>>> Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 07:27:40 -0700<br>>><br>>> This is a good idea. No sense in making EVERYONE on Mountain View<br>>> stop all day long when there is only a problem twice a day. Or even<br>>> having the lights on Mtn. View blink yellow most of the day and blink<br>>> red during those peak-use times.<br>>><br>>> The city needs to require the developer to finish the sidewalk on the<br>>> east side of Mountain View too-between Hillcrest and Rolling Hills.<br>>><br>>> cynthia nichols<br>>><br>>><br>>> On Aug 16, 2006, at 11:21 AM, Bruce and Jean Livingston wrote:<br>>><br>>>> Frankly, I don't understand why they don't put a traffic light<br>>>> there, set it<br>>>> for blinking yellow much of the day in the Mountainview
direction,<br>>>> but run<br>>>> it with actual red and green alternating lights for the high<br>>>> traffic, "kid"<br>>>> times, say 7 a.m. to 9 a.m., and 2 p.m. until 4 or even 6 pm given<br>>>> the "kid<br>>>> use" of the athletic facilities all around that intersection. The<br>>>> traffic<br>>>> back-up on D St. can be significant, and a regimented crossing<br>>>> opportunity<br>>>> that an actual red light on Mountainview would provide is <br>>>> significant.<br>>>><br>>>> Parents would also be much more likely to allow children to walk to<br>>>> school<br>>>> if they had confidence in the safety of their child when crossing<br>>>> Mountainview at D Street.<br>>>><br>>>> Bruce
Livingston<br>>>><br>>>> ----- Original Message -----<br>>>> From: "Craine Kit" <KCRAINE @verizon.net=""><br>>>> To: "Vision 2020" <VISION2020 @moscow.com=""><br>>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:21 AM<br>>>> Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Public Works Meeting<br>>>><br>>>><br>>>>> Here are the photos showing the flashing lights.<br>>>>><br>>>>> Kit Craine<br><br>=======================================================<br>List services made available by First Step Internet, <br>serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a> <br><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>=======================================================<br></VISION2020></KCRAINE></JOHNDICKINSON></BSTOUT></VISION2020></BLAMBERT></NCHANEY></JWEBER></JEANLIVINGSTON></CYNTHIANN0></blockquote><br> <div></div> <hr size="1"> Do you Yahoo!?<br>Next-gen email? Have it all with the <a href="http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=42241/*http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/handraisers">all-new Yahoo! Mail Beta.</a> <div></div> <hr> =======================================================<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
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