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Tony,<br>
<br>
What I tenaciously cling to is the idea that human rights matter, even
when attacks like 9/11 happen. If we could be sure that every one of
the people being held in detainment were actually violent terrorists
who were about to unleash the dogs of hell on us, then maybe I could
see the value of torture in extracting information from them. I'd
probably still argue against it just on principle, but it would at
least make some logical sense. But there appears to be little work
done on determining the guilt or the danger that each detainee poses.<br>
<br>
I mistrust the government because it has earned my mistrust. I'm not
being held captive and brainwashed daily by some old 60's hippies. I
need go no farther than mentioning the Patriot Act and our initial
invasion of Iraq even though we knew that the intelligence pointing to
an Iraq involvement in 9/11 was weak at best. The NSA wiretaps and
their acquisition of a major portion of our domestic telephone records,
actually arguing that torture is a good tool to use in our arsenal, the
ties our government still has with the Saudi government even though the
majority of the terrorists who actually were involved in 9/11 were
Saudi, Abu Ghraib, the Haliburton contracts, and the attempted stifling
of the press are all like icing on the cake. That's not even
mentioning non-9/11 actions such as the DMCA and the ever-lengthening
copyright, not to mention the perversion of the word "patriot" to mean
anyone who agrees with this administration. In fact, so many things
come out daily that it's hard to remember them all.<br>
<br>
What happens when your freely elected representatives start acting like
a military dictatorship? You vote the bums out of office, if they'll
let you.<br>
<br>
And yes, I never meant to imply that you said that we should give up
our freedoms for efficiency or effectiveness. You seem to be arguing
that others giving up those freedoms is fine, though, so how long will
ours last?<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ToeKneeTime@aol.com">ToeKneeTime@aol.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid326.5c89e73.31c7ac99@aol.com" type="cite">
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<div>Paul,</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Regarding torture and such against terrorists: You say that
such an administration would be akin to a military dictatorship. But
Paul, a military dictatorship torments its own people and the people
have no opportunity to select their dictator at the polls. Your
comparison therefore falls flat.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>You say that you are unwilling to give up your freedoms for
efficiency or effectiveness. I, of course, never suggested any such
thing. I suggested that these sociopathic, raghead vermin be
prevented, by torture if necessary, from detonating a nuclear or
biological device in this country. You tenaciously cling to a pre-911
mindset which involves reaction rather than proaction.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Paul, please don't let some paranoid, retro-60's distrust of
your own government allow you to place potentially 10s of thousands of
your fellow citizens in jeopardy.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Trying to help the liberal community better understand
sociopathy and how best to cope with it, ---Tony</div>
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