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<DIV><FONT size=4>Donovan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Re: "Dodging the question."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I am very sorry that I have over-challenged your reading
comprehension skills.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>You asked me about deficiencies in the MPD. I
replied:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=3>"You may find many of my comments about the MPD
in the archives. Have at it."</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Either you are unwilling or unable to look up the answers
yourself. Whichever, I am not going to waste energy doing it for
you. But just a hint: I have posted about traffic law enforcement
many times, as have other posters (e.g. Pat Kraut posted several times about
traffic enforcement problems). I have posted also about civil rights
violations, favoritism, and inept leadership (which I believe is partly
responsible for the present union issue).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If you are unwilling to do a little research in the V 2020
archives, do not blame my lack of opinions on the subject, but on your own
laziness or ineptitude in discovering what they are.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In fact, it is you who have failed to provide answers to two
relevant questions posed directly to you which are an important part of the
union issue:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=3>"Is it your contention that there is nothing
about the MPD that either needs improvement or is likely to need improvement in
the future or actions to prevent degradation in the future?"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=3></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff size=3>"Do you think that there is any organization
that can not be improved?"</FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>I would be very interested in hearing your opinions on this
subject. They may lead to a fruitful dialogue, although Councilperson John
Dickison has already provided some insightful material for that dialogue and to
which in time I may respond.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>It is your opinion of the MPD that:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT size=3>"I am happy with the ones we
got. Why do we need to have better ones, assuming there are better
ones?"</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4><FONT color=#0000ff><FONT
size=3></FONT><BR> </DIV></FONT></FONT>
<DIV><FONT size=4>While you may sincerely believe that, I am sure that such an
opinion is not universally held by area residents. I know this because of
many communications I have received. In the past, some of my posted
criticisms have resulted in a higher number than usual occurrences of being
followed or being in the proximity of MPD cars and other interesting
incidents for a few days. This happened especially after I posted
access to a very long document giving in great detail a description and
criticism of the MPD about one particular incident. I am sure that
many citizens refrain from making public comments about the MPD for fear of this
kind of behavior. I am glad that I am a very careful and conscientious
driver.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>If you are happy with the status quo of the MPD and disagree
with the specific criticisms backed by evidence myself and others have made,
then look up those comments in the archives and give evidence why they are
incorrect instead of playing high school debate club games.</FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>In the mean time it is useful to remember that it was members
of the MPD who brought up the proposal of unionization. If you are
happy with the MPD, then it seems to me you would want them to be happy in their
jobs so that they will stay here. If they were happy, their unionization
request would not have occurred.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><BR><FONT size=4>Art Deco (Wayne A. Fox)<BR></FONT><A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com"><FONT size=4>deco@moscow.com</FONT></A><BR></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message -----
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A
title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 24, 2006 10:24 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Stout Not Wrong n Union Support / Police
UnionStandNot a Conflict</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Wayne,<BR><BR>Nice try of dodging the
question.<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><B><I>Art Deco <<A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV><FONT size=4>Donovan:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Do you think that there is any organization that can not be
improved?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:35 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Stout Not Wrong n Union Support / Police
UnionStandNot a Conflict</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Wayne,<BR><BR>If you didn't want public comment on why you
think we need better MPD officers and we would get it through the officers
paying a union, why did you put it on Vision 2020, a public forum?
<BR><BR>Nice try dodging of the question.
<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><B><I>Art Deco <<A
href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">deco@moscow.com</A>></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV><FONT size=4>Donovan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>You may find many of my comments about the MPD in the
archives. Have at it. My original question was directed at Gary
Crabtree.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, May 24, 2006 6:19 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Stout Not Wrong n Union Support /
Police UnionStandNot a Conflict</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Wayne,<BR><BR>It is my contention that no proof has been
provided that a union will improve the competency of the
MPD-which is not needed anyway, our police are highly competent.<BR><BR>Why
are you dodging my question? Why do you think that our police are not good
enough? What are you saying is wrong with them?<BR><BR>You appear to be the
only one saying that they are not good enough. I would like to know why you
think that?<BR><BR>Regards,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><B><I>Art Deco
<deco@moscow.com></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV><FONT size=4>Donovan,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>Is it your contention that there is nothing about the
MPD that either needs improvement or is likely to need improvement in the
future or actions to prevent degradation in the future?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4>W.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message -----
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=deco@moscow.com href="mailto:deco@moscow.com">Art
Deco</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision 2020</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, May 23, 2006 7:54 AM</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Stout Not Wrong n Union Support /
Police UnionStandNot a Conflict</DIV></DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV><PRE><TT>"Is it then<BR> your contention that raising salaries and improving working <BR>conditions in the MPD will not promote the hiring and retention of more <BR>able, effective police officers?" Wayne Fox (Art Deco)<BR><BR>Wayne, sounds to me that you are saying our police are not<BR>able or effective enough for Moscow. I am happy with the ones<BR>we got. Why do we need to have better ones, assuming there are
better ones?<BR><BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><BR></TT></PRE><BR><BR><B><I>Art Deco
<deco@moscow.com></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">Gary,<BR><BR>Is
it then your contention that raising salaries and improving working
<BR>conditions in the MPD will not promote the hiring and retention of
more <BR>able, effective police officers?<BR><BR>W.<BR><BR>-----
Original Message ----- <BR>From: "g. crabtree" <JAMPOT
@adelphia.net=""><BR>To: "Tom Hansen" <THANSEN @moscow.com="">; "'Moscow
Vision 2020'" <BR><VISION2020 @moscow.com=""><BR>Sent: Monday, May 22,
2006 8:08 PM<BR>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Stout Not Wrong n Union
Support / Police <BR>UnionStandNot a Conflict<BR><BR><BR>> First name
familiarity and approachability are charming concepts but I <BR>>
really do not see how they out weigh the negatives of the union or even
<BR>> enhance law enforcement in the community in any appreciable
way. (this <BR>> isn't Detroit or Newark after all) Perhaps it would
be good if you did go <BR>> on a bit longer because the only picture
I get is of my tax bill going <BR>> through the roof and nothing of
substance to show for it, except a fatter <BR>> union and big grins
on a couple of councilmen.<BR>><BR>> gc<BR>> ----- Original
Message ----- <BR>> From: "Tom Hansen" <THANSEN
@moscow.com=""><BR>> To: "'g. crabtree'" <JAMPOT @adelphia.net="">;
"'Moscow Vision 2020'" <BR>> <VISION2020 @moscow.com=""><BR>>
Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 7:28 PM<BR>> Subject: RE: [Vision2020]
Stout Not Wrong n Union Support / Police Union <BR>> StandNot a
Conflict<BR>><BR>><BR>>> One MAJOR problem that the Moscow
Police Department is experiencing is <BR>>> lack<BR>>> of
continuity. After a year officers tend to pack up and move to
<BR>>> "greener<BR>>> pastures", primarily due to
wages/salaries that are not competitive (here <BR>>>
in<BR>>> Moscow) with other comparably-sized community police
departments.<BR>>> Ultimately this results in loss of quality
police officers.<BR>>><BR>>> Establishing a police union
will ensure the rights and privileges for our<BR>>> police
department; rights and privileges that have up until just
recently<BR>>> received nothing more than lip service from our
city council.<BR>>><BR>>> Once continuity is established,
the community becomes familiar with <BR>>> members<BR>>> of
its police force. The community gains first name familiarity with
the<BR>>> officers responsible for protecting its streets. This
level of <BR>>> familiarity<BR>>> breeds a relationship
where police officers become very approachable.<BR>>><BR>>>
I could go on and on about how such a relationship benefits
the<BR>>> neighborhoods, but I am sure you get the picture
already.<BR>>><BR>>> Tom Hansen<BR>>> Moscow,
Idaho<BR>>><BR>>> "If not us, who?<BR>>> If not now,
when?"<BR>>><BR>>> - Unknown<BR>>><BR>>>
-----Original Message-----<BR>>> From: g. crabtree
[mailto:jampot@adelphia.net]<BR>>> Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 6:58
PM<BR>>> To: Tom Hansen; Moscow Vision 2020<BR>>> Subject:
Re: [Vision2020] Stout Not Wrong n Union Support / Police
Union<BR>>> StandNot a Conflict<BR>>><BR>>> Ray writes
a fine letter as far as it goes. The question I have yet to <BR>>>
see<BR>>> answered satisfactorily is how is a unionized police
force is good for <BR>>> the<BR>>> city and by extension the
citizens? It's easy to see that it will be good<BR>>> for the
union. More dues. It will be good for politicians who support
it.<BR>>> More contributions. It might be good for the police.
More wages and<BR>>> benifits, perhaps. But good for the people of
Moscow as a whole? That <BR>>> hasn't<BR>>><BR>>> been
established by any stretch of the imagination. In fact its not too
<BR>>> hard<BR>>><BR>>> to envision several negative
outcomes that will be brought about by union<BR>>> recognition not
the least of which will be greatly increased
costs.<BR>>><BR>>>
gc<BR>>><BR>>><BR>>><BR>><BR>><BR>>
_____________________________________________________<BR>> List
services made available by First Step Internet, serving the <BR>>
communities of the Palouse since 1994. http://www.fsr.net <BR>>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>>
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