<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1543" name=GENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>To all those who wonder about the value and
importance of Vision 2020, Michael has provided us with one
example.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>He writes:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>"Wilson’s dishonesty in dealing with Vision 2020 and the “intoleristas” has
been pointed out here in the Wood a number of times already. In fact, it was my
own “taking a peek” at this Vision 2020 stuff that helped open my own eyes to
what kind of stuff Wilson fed us kirkers on a weekly basis."</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>It was the uncensored information flowing through
V2020 that awakened him to an alternate view of his tidy little kirk
world. We can be proud of shining that light.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>For the future, can I suggest we focus on dialogue
that seeks to inform and awaken, and not petty and mean-spirited
namecalling?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>BL</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=metzler@moscow.com
href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">Michael</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, May 19, 2006 3:42 PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] [] crossing the
line</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>If you say so Michael. <BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><B><I>Michael <<A
href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">metzler@moscow.com</A>></I></B> wrote:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=replbq
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(16,16,255) 2px solid">
<META content="Microsoft Word 11 (filtered medium)"
name=Generator><O:SMARTTAGTYPE name="PlaceType"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="PlaceName"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="place"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="City"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><!--[if !mso]>
<STYLE>st1\:* {
BEHAVIOR: url(#default#ieooui)
}
</STYLE>
<![endif]-->
<STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal,
div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} h2 {mso-margin-top-alt:auto; margin-right:0in; mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto; margin-left:0in; font-size:18.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple; text-decoration:underline;} span.EmailStyle17 {mso-style-type:personal-compose; font-family:Arial; color:windowtext;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1027" /> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <o:shapelayout v:ext="edit"> <o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" /> </o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE>
<DIV class=Section1>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Donavan,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Most of my time enjoying charitable discourse with
folks on Vision 2020 happened before I became a public critic of Doug
Wilson. First, nobody knew I was a Christian. Then, everyone
knew I was a Christian but not a kirker. Then everyone knew that I was
a Christian and a kirker when I was forced to defend Doug Wilson and
<ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACENAME w:st="on">Christ</ST1:PLACENAME>
<ST1:PLACETYPE w:st="on">Church</ST1:PLACETYPE></ST1:PLACE>. Through
all three stages I was able to enjoy rational and charitable discussions
with many on Vision 2020. And no doubt some local conservative
Christians feel no different than many ‘liberals’ here on this list about
your quote below. Given all this, I’m not sure what your argument
could be here. Feel free to further explain. I hope you would be
willing to respond a bit more to my note to
you.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Michael Metzler <O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT
face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Michael,<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<H2><B><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=5><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 18pt">"The Elders of <ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACENAME
w:st="on">Christ</ST1:PLACENAME> <ST1:PLACETYPE
w:st="on">Church</ST1:PLACETYPE></ST1:PLACE> Kick Pooh
Out"<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></B></H2>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><BR>Liberals love you. <BR><BR><BR>Best
Regards,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><BR><BR><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-STYLE: italic">Michael
<metzler@moscow.com></SPAN></I></B> wrote:
<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE name="place"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="City"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><O:SMARTTAGTYPE
name="PersonName"
namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE></O:SMARTTAGTYPE>Donavan
Writes:<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">The Liberal rules on Vision 2020 are simple and
fair. If a liberal expresses an opinion, and attacks you or a member of your
family, that is fine. If you attack back, respond, or explain yourself, you
are resorting to mudslinging and personal attacks. That is the way
Vision2020 works now, it is the way it has worked in the past, and it is the
way it will work in the future. . . .Vision 2020 is now just a pointless
listserve for people with big mouths and little brains to express disgust in
others that differ from them. Too bad, it could have been something special.
Now it is just the Ghetto of the
Palouse.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Me:<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Donavan, I wish you would respond to those you
disagree with in a more dignified, charitable, and argumentative way.
There are ‘liberals’ that post to this list that are capable of doing this,
and they have done so many enjoyable times over. Considering that I am
just as ‘conservative’ as you, if not more so, and yet entirely disagree
with your assertions above, I would think that they require an argument or
some charitably placed supportive evidence. I really am hoping that
this list doesn’t entirely implode before I get a chance to enjoy the
discussions here again, and so I’m going to ask you Donovan, given your
profession of Christianity, to help lead the way; please respond to your
opponents with disciplined kindness. In so far as you want to assert what
you have above, I will challenge the veracity of your claims. I do not
believe this is asking much, and I hope you don’t take it as my asking much;
as you know, we are commanded to do this by the incarnate God to whom you
claim allegiance. I did not want to write a post like this, but I’m
not sure how I could continue my following of this list without expressing
this worry and exhortation. I think you have some good points that should be
heard, but they often get covered up by unnecessary rhetoric and personal
attacks. If this is done to you, then turn a cheek or something. Thank
you. <O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Along these same lines, you might find the comments
below applicable; I’m pasted them from a recent entry on my own
Blog.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Thanks<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Michael<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><A title=http://www.poohsthink.com/
href="http://www.poohsthink.com/">www.poohsthink.com</A>
<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">You can see <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY
u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE>’s typical
offensive move against the “intoleristas” <A
title=http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2321
href="http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2321"
target=_blank><STRONG><B><FONT
title=http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2321
face="Times New Roman">here</FONT></B></STRONG></A>. <ST1:PLACE
u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE>’s dishonesty
in dealing with Vision 2020 and the “intoleristas” has been pointed out here
in the Wood a number of times already. In fact, it was my own “taking a
peek” at this Vision 2020 stuff that helped open my own eyes to what kind of
stuff Wilson fed us kirkers on a weekly basis. It has been standard practice
for Wilson to find the most poorly reasoned or <EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman">prima facie </FONT></I></EM>false statements uttered
in the last month out of hundreds of posts (from the standpoint of his
followers anyway) and display it on his blog for annihilation. The last time
he did this, he claimed that what he was presenting was the <EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman">typical</FONT></I></EM> sort of argument one would
find on Vision 2020, when in fact, which <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY
u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE> knew, it was
the most <EM><I><FONT
face="Times New Roman">untypical</FONT></I></EM>.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">For those of you who do not follow Vision 2020
carefully, let me give you some basic facts about our little situation here
in <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Moscow</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE>. Many of the
common posters to Vision 2020 have intellectual and argumentative abilities
that compare to, and in some ways, surpass, that of <ST1:PLACE
u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE>’s. Some of
them are highly rigorous, others more passionate, and others more witty.
When up against <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY
w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE> one on one,
I’m sure they would have an interesting fight. But what of Jones? Jones got
off Vision 2020 the day I got on, and what he was doing there was silly and
offensive; it was certainly no real match for the various passionate
intellects that frequent there. But a balanced analysis would not compare
Wilson and Jones to Vision 2020 posters in the first place. Not only are
Vision 2020 guys and gals mere “laymen” in contrast to the fearless national
leaders at Anselm House, they have all as a group been ridiculed
consistently and confidently by Wilson and other kirkers as blind, venomous
idiots who can do nothing but band together in secret to cook up the next
evil and irrational plot against Doug
Wilson.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">Well, have I mentioned anything yet about Doug
Wilson being a liar? Here is a perfect example of his deceit, deceit that I
was lulled by for a total of three years before joining the Vision 2020
group myself. Vision 2020 is primarily composed of all sorts of people,
including conservatives, liberals, secularists, agnostics, theists,
conservative Christians, liberal Christians, new Christians, old Christians,
atheists, theists, deists, veterans, lawyers, professors, writers, retired
corporate folks, and so on and so forth. In other words, it is composed of
our local <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY
w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Moscow</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE> neighbors.
Only the growing “Village” paranoia that <ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY> is seeking to generate causes kirkers
and <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY
w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE>’s
conservative sidekick <ST1:PERSONNAME u1:st="on"><ST1:PERSONNAME
w:st="on">Dale Courtney</ST1:PERSONNAME></ST1:PERSONNAME> to categorize and
demonize “Venom2020” the way they
do.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">So to continue our comparison in a more balanced
way, what of the Greyfriar graduates who post on Vision 2020? or Mr. Farris?
or what of the purple flying-clown-elephant Deacon James? Any skim of Vision
2020 makes it clear that some of the most non-argumentative, irrational,
smug, arrogant, unhelpful posts come directly out from the educated elite of
the Kirk — although I’ve noticed a slight change of late. Period; this is
simply a fact. One of the last Kirker posts to me on Vision 2020 had as its
primary thesis that I had failed to spell Greyfriars correctly. Another
irrationally hurled accusations at me, about 10 in three paragraphs in fact
— and this is to a fellow kirker! The question at this point folks, is not
whether or not the kirkers on Vision 2020 are displaying fine Christian
culture — they most certainly aren’t by any normal person’s definition of
“Christian” or “culture.” The question is rather what social group here in
<ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Moscow</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE>, based on the
thin society of Vision 2020, truly deserves the label of “venom” and
“intolerista.” Furthermore, and this makes Wilson’s last attack against the
“intoleristas” today all the more interesting, there has been a nice barrage
of non-kirker conservatives, conservative Christians in fact, seen on Vision
2020. And it looks like they are currently trying to win the venom and
intolerista award.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">When I joined the discussion at Vision 2020 we began
having delightful discussions; I had rational and patient listening ears
waiting for me, albeit backed with passionate and argumentative fingertips.
I was able to hash out my defense of my own highly offensive view of things
till the cows came home. But unfortunately, the typical North Idaho
community member does not take much stock in passionate religious and
political debate; <ST1:PLACE u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY u1:st="on"><ST1:CITY
w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE
w:st="on">Wilson</ST1:PLACE></ST1:CITY></ST1:CITY></ST1:PLACE> will no doubt
play up on this, as will less daring local journalists and politicians. One
of the problems many folks will have with Vision 2020, whether they are in
or outside the Kirk, is the passionate and argumentative persistence they
will find there. Don’t let the newspapers fool you; some journalists just
pee in their pants when argumentatively challenged about their daddy’s
religion. For some, politics and religion are as hush hush as their adultery
with the woman next door. Who is it that despised Socrates? Who killed both
him and Jesus? It was both the politician and the local priest, and may we
never forget it.<O:P></O:P><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt">When ever Dale is finished hiding behind his own
Ultra-conserv blog, perhaps he can join us on Vision 2020 again — it was
after all his own moral weakness that forced him to leave in the first
place.<O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV><O:P></O:P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><O:P></O:P></SPAN></FONT></DIV></DIV>_____________________________________________________<BR>List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the communities
of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net
<BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<P>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You
Yahoo!?<BR>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
<BR>http://mail.yahoo.com
<P>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You
Yahoo!?<BR>Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
<BR>http://mail.yahoo.com
<P>
<HR>
<P></P>_____________________________________________________<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
http://www.fsr.net
<BR>
mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>