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<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Donavan Writes:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>The Liberal rules on Vision 2020 are simple and fair. If a liberal
expresses an opinion, and attacks you or a member of your family, that is fine.
If you attack back, respond, or explain yourself, you are resorting to
mudslinging and personal attacks. That is the way Vision2020 works now, it is
the way it has worked in the past, and it is the way it will work in the
future. . . .Vision 2020 is now just a pointless listserve for people with big
mouths and little brains to express disgust in others that differ from them.
Too bad, it could have been something special. Now it is just the Ghetto of the
Palouse.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Me:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Donavan, I wish you would respond to those you disagree with in a more dignified,
charitable, and argumentative way. There are ‘liberals’ that
post to this list that are capable of doing this, and they have done so many
enjoyable times over. Considering that I am just as ‘conservative’
as you, if not more so, and yet entirely disagree with your assertions above, I
would think that they require an argument or some charitably placed supportive evidence.
I really am hoping that this list doesn’t entirely implode before I get a
chance to enjoy the discussions here again, and so I’m going to ask you
Donovan, given your profession of Christianity, to help lead the way; please
respond to your opponents with disciplined kindness. In so far as you want to
assert what you have above, I will challenge the veracity of your claims. I
do not believe this is asking much, and I hope you don’t take it as my
asking much; as you know, we are commanded to do this by the incarnate God to
whom you claim allegiance. I did not want to write a post like this, but
I’m not sure how I could continue my following of this list without
expressing this worry and exhortation. I think you have some good points that
should be heard, but they often get covered up by unnecessary rhetoric and
personal attacks. If this is done to you, then turn a cheek or something. Thank
you. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Along these same lines, you might find the comments below applicable; I’m
pasted them from a recent entry on my own Blog.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>Michael<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><a href="http://www.poohsthink.com/">www.poohsthink.com</a> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>You can
see <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place>’s
typical offensive move against the “intoleristas” <a
href="http://www.dougwils.com/index.asp?Action=Anchor&CategoryID=1&BlogID=2321"
target="_blank"><strong><b><font face="Times New Roman">here</font></b></strong></a>.
<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place>’s
dishonesty in dealing with Vision 2020 and the “intoleristas” has
been pointed out here in the Wood a number of times already. In fact, it was my
own “taking a peek” at this Vision 2020 stuff that helped open my
own eyes to what kind of stuff Wilson fed us kirkers on a weekly basis. It has
been standard practice for Wilson to find the most poorly reasoned or <em><i><font
face="Times New Roman">prima facie </font></i></em>false statements uttered in
the last month out of hundreds of posts (from the standpoint of his followers
anyway) and display it on his blog for annihilation. The last time he did this,
he claimed that what he was presenting was the <em><i><font
face="Times New Roman">typical</font></i></em> sort of argument one would find
on Vision 2020, when in fact, which <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place>
knew, it was the most <em><i><font face="Times New Roman">untypical</font></i></em>.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>For those
of you who do not follow Vision 2020 carefully, let me give you some basic
facts about our little situation here in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:place>.
Many of the common posters to Vision 2020 have intellectual and argumentative
abilities that compare to, and in some ways, surpass, that of <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place>’s. Some of them are highly
rigorous, others more passionate, and others more witty. When up against <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place> one on one,
I’m sure they would have an interesting fight. But what of Jones? Jones
got off Vision 2020 the day I got on, and what he was doing there was silly and
offensive; it was certainly no real match for the various passionate intellects
that frequent there. But a balanced analysis would not compare Wilson and Jones
to Vision 2020 posters in the first place. Not only are Vision 2020 guys and
gals mere “laymen” in contrast to the fearless national leaders at
Anselm House, they have all as a group been ridiculed consistently and
confidently by Wilson and other kirkers as blind, venomous idiots who can do
nothing but band together in secret to cook up the next evil and irrational
plot against Doug Wilson.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>Well,
have I mentioned anything yet about Doug Wilson being a liar? Here is a perfect
example of his deceit, deceit that I was lulled by for a total of three years
before joining the Vision 2020 group myself. Vision 2020 is primarily composed
of all sorts of people, including conservatives, liberals, secularists,
agnostics, theists, conservative Christians, liberal Christians, new Christians,
old Christians, atheists, theists, deists, veterans, lawyers, professors,
writers, retired corporate folks, and so on and so forth. In other words, it is
composed of our local <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:place>
neighbors. Only the growing “Village” paranoia that <st1:City
w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City> is seeking to generate causes kirkers and <st1:place
w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place>’s
conservative sidekick <st1:PersonName w:st="on">Dale Courtney</st1:PersonName>
to categorize and demonize “Venom2020” the way they do.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>So to
continue our comparison in a more balanced way, what of the Greyfriar graduates
who post on Vision 2020? or Mr. Farris? or what of the purple
flying-clown-elephant Deacon James? Any skim of Vision 2020 makes it clear that
some of the most non-argumentative, irrational, smug, arrogant, unhelpful posts
come directly out from the educated elite of the Kirk — although
I’ve noticed a slight change of late. Period; this is simply a fact. One
of the last Kirker posts to me on Vision 2020 had as its primary thesis that I
had failed to spell Greyfriars correctly. Another irrationally hurled
accusations at me, about 10 in three paragraphs in fact — and this is to
a fellow kirker! The question at this point folks, is not whether or not the
kirkers on Vision 2020 are displaying fine Christian culture — they most
certainly aren’t by any normal person’s definition of
“Christian” or “culture.” The question is rather what
social group here in <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Moscow</st1:City></st1:place>,
based on the thin society of Vision 2020, truly deserves the label of
“venom” and “intolerista.” Furthermore, and this makes
Wilson’s last attack against the “intoleristas” today all the
more interesting, there has been a nice barrage of non-kirker conservatives,
conservative Christians in fact, seen on Vision 2020. And it looks like they
are currently trying to win the venom and intolerista award.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:12.0pt'>When I
joined the discussion at Vision 2020 we began having delightful discussions; I
had rational and patient listening ears waiting for me, albeit backed with
passionate and argumentative fingertips. I was able to hash out my defense of
my own highly offensive view of things till the cows came home. But
unfortunately, the typical North Idaho community member does not take much
stock in passionate religious and political debate; <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City
w:st="on">Wilson</st1:City></st1:place> will no doubt play up on this, as will
less daring local journalists and politicians. One of the problems many folks
will have with Vision 2020, whether they are in or outside the Kirk, is the
passionate and argumentative persistence they will find there. Don’t let
the newspapers fool you; some journalists just pee in their pants when
argumentatively challenged about their daddy’s religion. For some,
politics and religion are as hush hush as their adultery with the woman next
door. Who is it that despised Socrates? Who killed both him and Jesus? It was
both the politician and the local priest, and may we never forget it.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><span style='font-size:
12.0pt'>When ever Dale is finished hiding behind his own Ultra-conserv blog,
perhaps he can join us on Vision 2020 again — it was after all his own
moral weakness that forced him to leave in the first place.</span></font><font
size=2 face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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