Your point is denied. The difference has been answered several times. Same sex marriage is between consenting adults. There is no remotely good reason to criminilize victimless sins. And if you believe differently, maybe you should start by having your own sins prosecuted since you believe all sins are equal and that we're all sinners.<br><br>-Scott<br><br><b><i>rvrcowboy <rvrcowboy@clearwire.net></i></b> wrote:<blockquote class="replbq" style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> Well, I don't know about anyone else but I don't even know who Mr. Jeffs or<br>Dale C. are. Don't believe I have read anything from either of them. I<br>certainly do not support sex with minors anymore than I support incest,<br>beastiality or homosexuality. I see them all as equal sins. The whole<br>point of my posts has been that I see no difference in the arguments in<br>favor of any one of them over any other.
Therefore, since leftists, in<br>general, advocate so much tolerance toward others, why do they think one is<br>repugnant and the other is just hunky-dory. Appears very inconsistent to<br>me. I suppose it is a case of "whose ox is being gored" at the moment.<br><br>It really does not matter anymore to me. It isn't my business how any of<br>you justify your sins or hide your guilt over it. I am not perfect in my<br>own life and need to concentrate more on that than wondering how you do it.<br>I am really much more political than into all this junk but with such a<br>fertile field to question, I could not resist asking the questions that have<br>been bothering me, concerning the justification of some of these things but<br>not others when they are all equally loathsome.<br><br>I have wasted far too much valuable time on this when I could be debating,<br>learning and enjoying my time with someone like Sunil. Therefore, I am done<br>with this thread and will not return to
it again. I know it has been<br>repulsive but I do not know how to approach such things without being<br>repulsive, that is the whole point. I apologize for exposing this ugliness<br>to those not into it but it is a fact of life there are many who are and<br>they believe the rest of us should accept their immorality and even pass<br>laws in favor of their repulsive lifestyles, teach it to our children as the<br>norm and feel sorry for them, all at the same time. You will read the<br>screeching responses to this from many of them, no doubt. I will not<br>respond, I have made my point, accept it or deny it.<br><br>Dick S.<br>----- Original Message ----- <br>From: "J Ford" <privatejf32@hotmail.com><br>To: <vision2020@moscow.com><br>Sent: Friday, May 12, 2006 12:20 AM<br>Subject: [Vision2020] Why Go After Them? Because that is what truly<br>RIGHTMINDED people do<br><br><br>> In my ancient and wise Gran's words: Bull **** pucky!!!<br>><br>> If you support a
person's beliefs, you support their activities. Dale<br>> specifically has stated he sees nothing wrong in what Mr. Jeffs has been<br>> doing and equates the homosexual marriage with a sin worthy of death - but<br>> the marriage of children to adults, he does not see a problem?<br>><br>> IN MY OPINION, I'm sorry, but Dale, Mr. Ed, Dick, and the rest DO support<br>> child abuse when they support the likes of Mr. Jeffs. End of story.<br>><br>><br>><br>> J :]<br>><br>><br>><br>><br>> >From: lfalen <lfalen@turbonet.com><br>> >To: "J Ford" <privatejf32@hotmail.com>, vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >Subject: [Spam] Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?<br>> >Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 09:38:19 -0700<br>> ><br>> >j<br>> >Your comments about Mr Jeffs are all valid. However you are wrong about<br>> >Dale. He never condoned it . He is as opposed to it as you are. Reread<br>his<br>>
>blogs.<br>> ><br>> >Roger<br>> >-----Original message-----<br>> >From: "J Ford" privatejf32@hotmail.com<br>> >Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 01:18:43 -0700<br>> >To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> >Subject: [Spam] Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?<br>> ><br>> > > To clarify a couple of things, if I might...<br>> > ><br>> > > Mr. Jeffs, a NON-pastorized "preacher" of his word (NOT God's), has<br>> >arranged<br>> > > "marriages" between CHILDREN as young as 12 and adults as old as 48 -<br>> >this<br>> > > is not love or any form of God's work, it is sexual assault, rape,<br>child<br>> > > molestation, the damaging permanently of a child's life and mind, a<br>SIN<br>> >in<br>> > > any language, religion, faith, law, country, etc. Mr. Ed or Dale or<br>CD<br>> >or<br>> > > any other "pervert" that allows this type of behavior as
being<br>"normal"<br>> >and<br>> > > preferable belongs in the same cell as Mr. Jeffs will find himself in,<br>> >for<br>> > > the same length of time - hopefully, that being the rest of their<br>> >horrible,<br>> > > miserable, lousy lives.<br>> > ><br>> > > Mr. Jeffs has also, in his own voice, been heard to say that anyone<br>with<br>> > > dark skin is loathsome, uneducated, unworthy, vile, not to be dealt<br>with<br>> >in<br>> > > any other manner but through a death blow, etc. If you watch the<br>> >reports<br>> > > being done on him and his groups, you will notice NOT A SINGLE<br>NON-WHITE<br>> > > PERSON is among them. NOT ONE! (sounds like your kinda group Mr.<br>Ed?)<br>> > ><br>> > > The very fact that they have "compounds" with armed guards and that<br>this<br>> > > person is hiding from the FBI and other law enforcement
agents speaks<br>> > > volumes and volumes of his knowing that his activities are wrong - he<br>is<br>> > > HIDING...get it?! He knows he is wrong and that not even God will<br>> >protect<br>> > > him no matter how often or loudly he proclaims His name.<br>> > ><br>> > > Anyone remember Waco? How about Jonestown?<br>> > ><br>> > > Why, in all that is Holy, would ANYone support that type of group?<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > J :]<br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > ><br>> > > >From: "keely emerinemix" <kjajmix1@msn.com><br>> > > >To: ecooper@turbonet.com, privatejf32@hotmail.com,<br>> >vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > > >Subject: Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?<br>> > > >Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 16:14:35 -0700<br>> > > ><br>> > > >Earlier this week, I apologized
to Ed for having said that the<br>"light"<br>> >he<br>> > > >shone forth was, unlike the light of Christ to which he was<br>referring,<br>> > > >simply garish, obnoxious, and without value (I was much more<br>colorful,<br>> >but<br>> > > >there's no need to repeat it). I had second thoughts and apologized,<br>> > > >thinking I was judgmental, harsh, and unduly condemning.<br>> > > ><br>> > > >Never mind.<br>> > > ><br>> > > >Based on his comments below, which are another foaming-at-the-mouth<br>> >rant<br>> > > >against homosexuality, I think I was right. He is all heat, not<br>light,<br>> >and<br>> > > >whatever flashes of brilliance he shows are not intellectual in<br>nature<br>> >but<br>> > > >simply flashes of momentary ocular interruption.<br>> > > ><br>> > > >That Ed finds
homosexual behavior sinful is one thing, although I<br>hope<br>> >he<br>> > > >would at least appeal to his understanding of the Bible and not to<br>his<br>> >own<br>> > > >disgust over what he perceives as icky -- we're in trouble if Ed's<br>> > > >standards become the norm. And while I have said before that<br>> >Christians<br>> > > >who hold to a conservative reading of Scripture regarding<br>homosexuality<br>> >are<br>> > > >not automatically better Christians, more Christlike and mature, than<br>> >those<br>> > > >who don't, I will acknowledge that most conservative Christians see<br>the<br>> > > >behavior condemned in the Bible. But while there is legitimate<br>dispute<br>> > > >over prooftexts that appear to be ironclad to some and not so to<br>> >others,<br>> > > >there is NO dispute over the entirety of the OT and NT
text, which<br>> >calls<br>> > > >for love as the highest ideal. Not heterosexuality, not<br>conservatism,<br>> >not<br>> > > >fundamentalism, not even disgust at sin. And so, on that basis, I<br>can<br>> > > >readily and unapologetically conclude that Ed is not shining forth<br>the<br>> > > >light of his Savior, but a cheap and entirely offensive counterfeit<br>> >that<br>> > > >does no one any good -- and certainly doesn't glorify God.<br>> > > ><br>> > > >More immediately bizarre, of course, is that he considers the<br>polygamy<br>> >of<br>> > > >Colorado City to be less evil than even committed, loving homosexual<br>> > > >relationships. Remember what Ed apparently can't grasp: that the<br>> >Warren<br>> > > >Jeffs brand of polygamy, and much if not most other examples of<br>> > > >quasi-Mormon polygamy,
are not examples of sexually healthy, free,<br>> > > >autonomous and of-age women simply being satisfied by one loving,<br>> >albeit<br>> > > >fickle, stud. These "women" are often young teenagers, and none of<br>> >them<br>> > > >has the security of a loving community around them; the self-worth<br>and<br>> > > >confidence to refuse sexual attention or childbearing; the autonomy<br>to<br>> >turn<br>> > > >down "marriages" to men who are strangers to them, or, worse, family<br>> > > >members; or the economic and social viability to escape. Girls are<br>> >raped,<br>> > > >boys are cast out as "competition" to the horny perverts who mask as<br>> >God's<br>> > > >chosen leaders of the home, church, and society, and women are<br>> >consigned to<br>> > > >a form of sexual slavery that is no less horrific because "God" is<br>>
>invoked<br>> > > >in its practice.<br>> > > ><br>> > > >Ed should be ashamed that he finds the practice of homosexuality,<br>even<br>> > > >between two adults who love each other, more repugnant than the<br>above.<br>> >On<br>> > > >the other hand, patriarchy and homophobia are two monuments to an<br>idol<br>> > > >located south of a man's heart, and protecting that idol evidently<br>> >involves<br>> > > >more bigotry than most people can possibly muster.<br>> > > ><br>> > > >keely<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > >From: "Ed" <ecooper@turbonet.com><br>> > > >To: "J Ford" <privatejf32@hotmail.com>, <vision2020@moscow.com><br>> > > >Subject: Re: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?<br>> > > >Date: Wed, 10 May 2006 08:22:16 -0700<br>>
> > ><br>> > > >Hey J:<br>> > > ><br>> > > >Since my name was used derogatorily in your losing exchange with<br>Dale,<br>> >I<br>> > > >feel compelled to add my two cents. Although, I'm not a polygamist, I<br>> >see<br>> > > >it's fruits (no pun intended) far less damaging than those of the<br>> >abnormal,<br>> > > >twisted, despicable perversion of homosexuality...<br>> > > ><br>> > > > ----- Original Message -----<br>> > > > From: J Ford<br>> > > > To: vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 9:12 PM<br>> > > > Subject: [Spam] [Vision2020] Why Go After Them?<br>> > > ><br>> > > ><br>> > > > Dale C:<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Criminal Probe of Church<br>> > > ><br>> > > > The Fundamentalist
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints<br>> >(FLDS) is<br>> > > >one<br>> > > > of a number of polygamist sects in and near Utah. Followers<br>believe<br>> >the<br>> > > > Mormons went the wrong direction when it abandoned polygamy more<br>> >than a<br>> > > > century ago as Utah was seeking statehood.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Since we're in the middle of redefining "marriage", why go after<br>> >this<br>> > > >group?<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Me:<br>> > > ><br>> > > > ARE YOU FRIGGING KIDDING???!!! This group is so abusing its<br>> >members,<br>> > > > women/children mostly, and you have to ask why they are being<br>looked<br>> > > >into<br>> > > > and sought after?<br>> > > ><br>> > > > CD Witmer says:<br>> > > ><br>>
> > > Why go after this group? Well, apart from the fact that they are<br>> > > > polygamists, they have the "look and feel" of WASPs and therefore<br>> >don't<br>> > > >get<br>> > > > protected status. Now if they were promoting multiple-partner<br>> >HOMOSEXUAL<br>> > > > marriage, you can bet they would be protected.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Me:<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Geez, dude - what world do you live in? You can't possibly be<br>this<br>> >sick<br>> > > > that you believe the crap you spew?! Don't tell me - you're one<br>of<br>> > > >those<br>> > > > "we whites have to stick together or get lost in the crowd" kinda<br>> > > > guys....like Mr. Ed?<br>> > > ><br>> > > > Anyone else see a parallel of Colorado City to the Moscow that<br>> > >
>Dougie-Boy is<br>> > > > working to create? He may not be talking multiple marriages at<br>one<br>> >time<br>> > > > (yet) but he certainly has the land development , "own(ing of)<br>> > > >businesses<br>> > > > and property," the harassment of former members, etc. and other<br>> >illegal<br>> > > > activities part down. Only a matter of time....if Moscow just<br>> >closes<br>> > > >it's<br>> > > > eyes long enough.<br>> > > ><br>> > > > J :|<br>> > > ><br>> > > > _________________________________________________________________<br>> > > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today -<br>it's<br>> > > >FREE!<br>> > > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/<br>> > > ><br>> > > >
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>�����������������������������������������������������<br>> > > ><br>> > > >_________________________________________________________________<br>> > > >Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!<br>> > > >http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/<br>> > > ><br>> > ><br>> > > _________________________________________________________________<br>> > > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's<br>> >FREE!<br>> > > http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/<br>> > ><br>> > > _____________________________________________________<br>> > > List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> > > serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>
> > http://www.fsr.net<br>> > > mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>> > > �����������������������������������������������������<br>> > ><br>><br>> _________________________________________________________________<br>> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!<br>> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/<br>><br>> _____________________________________________________<br>> List services made available by First Step Internet,<br>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>> http://www.fsr.net<br>> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>>
�����������������������������������������������������<br>><br><br>_____________________________________________________<br> List services made available by First Step Internet, <br> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994. <br> http://www.fsr.net <br> mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<br>�����������������������������������������������������<br></vision2020@moscow.com></privatejf32@hotmail.com></ecooper@turbonet.com></kjajmix1@msn.com></privatejf32@hotmail.com></lfalen@turbonet.com></vision2020@moscow.com></privatejf32@hotmail.com></blockquote><br>