<div><span class="gmail_quote">MD wrote:</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">I doubt that most Americans feel their rights being infringed by the death penalty.</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">----------</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">Do you mean to say that you "doubt that most Americans feel their rights being infringed by the death penalty" when an innocent person is executed? We were discussing the problems with the execution of the innocent. You may be correct, yet how sad this state of affairs is...
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<div><span class="gmail_quote">
<h1>
<center><font color="#000099">No Man is an Island</font></center></h1><pre><font color="#000099">No man is an island, entire of itself
every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main
if a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less, as well as if a promontory were,
as well as if a manor of thy friends or of thine own were
any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind
and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls
it tolls for thee.
-- John Donne</font></pre></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">--------------</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">Vision2020 Post by Ted Moffett</span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote"></span> </div>
<div><span class="gmail_quote">On 5/4/06, <b class="gmail_sendername">Matt Decker</b> <<a href="mailto:mattd2107@hotmail.com">mattd2107@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
<div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="PADDING-LEFT: 1ex; MARGIN: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; BORDER-LEFT: #ccc 1px solid">Ted,<br><br>Some great points, however, you lost me on the death penalty being a tool<br>for dictarship. Isn't the sole purpose to kill the bad guys? I doubt that
<br>most Americans feel their rights being infringed by the death penalty. Well<br>at least the ones not doing the horrific crimes.<br><br>MD<br><br><br>>From: "Ted Moffett" <<a href="mailto:starbliss@gmail.com">
starbliss@gmail.com</a>><br>>To: "<a href="mailto:ToeKneeTime@aol.com">ToeKneeTime@aol.com</a>" <<a href="mailto:ToeKneeTime@aol.com">ToeKneeTime@aol.com</a>><br>>CC: <a href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">
vision2020@moscow.com</a><br>>Subject: Re: [Vision2020] Re: Only the short sighted think Death Penalty<br>>MustBe Aboli...<br>>Date: Thu, 4 May 2006 00:30:07 -0700<br>><br>>Tony et. al.<br>><br>>Anyone who has committed a crime deserving of the death penalty can be
<br>>given<br>>life in prison without parole instead. So then there is no recidivism,<br>>unless it occurs in prison, the prisoner escapes, or somehow the laws<br>>change<br>>to allow the prisoner out. And please don't carp about the costs of life
<br>>imprisonment... if dollars and cents quantified justice we'd let MBAs from<br>>Harvard determine who gets a quality trial and who does not, based on how<br>>much media time could be sold for the trial coverage. And death penalty
<br>>cases are very costly with the appeals process, etc.<br>><br>>With life imprisonment without parole, if a mistake was made there is time<br>>to correct the injustice. With the death penalty enforced if someone is
<br>>later found innocent...<br>><br>>Justice is not cheap. If you want cheap justice, move to China. You<br>>might<br>>find that your Christian beliefs (aggressive public opposition to forced<br>>abortions) and lifestyle draw the attention of the Chinese Communist Party,
<br>>who can have you executed in short order (trumped up charges?), with<br>>minimal<br>>rights to a fair trial or access to an appeal, etc.<br>><br>>The death penalty is a prime symptom of a dictatorship...Or is it one of
<br>>the<br>>prime tools of a dictatorship? Both?<br>><br>>The death penalty in any nation is a tool that can be used to impose<br>>tyranny, even if it exists within a system that at this moment appears to
<br>>respect justice, fairness and the rights of the individual. This potential<br>>for abuse alone justifies banning the death penalty. I don't trust the<br>>state to determine who gets to live or die based on a flawed legal system,
<br>>nor do I trust that in the future the state may not have the machinery of<br>>the death penalty high jacked for the sake of<br>>military/economic/political/ideological "special interests."<br>><br>
>Support for the death penalty is symptomatic of those<br>>who, despite any appearances as critics of government regulation, are<br>>authoritarians at heart, who think the government should have the ultimate<br>>say in the life and death of human beings. Talk about an egregious
<br>>overextension of government power...!!!! I can't imagine any power more<br>>egregious. Well, OK, Winston (1984) was crushed as a human being by the<br>>state to make a statement that the state has the power to destroy (as in
<br>>destroy the spirit, beliefs and love a human being followed) a human being<br>>who opposes said state, while they are alive, the point being this is worse<br>>than having the state simply execute its opponents, because it is a
<br>>destruction of the very freedom seeking individualistic humanity in the<br>>soul<br>>of a human being that constitutes the essence of the opposition of the<br>>individual to the power of the state...<br>>
<br>>You might want to consider the decision by former Illinois Republican<br>>Governor Ryan regarding the death penalty in Illinois, and also the work of<br>>the Innocence Project:<br>><br>><a href="http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june01/penalty_5-10.html">
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/law/jan-june01/penalty_5-10.html</a><br>><br>><a href="http://www.innocenceproject.org/">http://www.innocenceproject.org/</a><br>><br>>Ted Moffett<br>><br>>On 5/3/06, <a href="mailto:ToeKneeTime@aol.com">
ToeKneeTime@aol.com</a> <<a href="mailto:ToeKneeTime@aol.com">ToeKneeTime@aol.com</a>> wrote:<br>>><br>>> ACS,<br>>><br>>>No, no, you misunderstand. I did not say that executing the innocent was
<br>>>justified as a deterrent. I was simply pointing out that any system<br>>>administered by fallible humans is going to result in some percentage of<br>>>errors. I don't believe that we should respond to this unavoidable
<br>>>consequence by dumping the entire program. Your inclination to do exactly<br>>>that is understandable but potentially VERY costly. I believe that the<br>>>end<br>>>result would be a far GREATER loss of life do to recidivism.
<br>>><br>>>Hope this sheds more light on my position.<br>>><br>>>Best, --Tony<br>>><br>>>_____________________________________________________<br>>> List services made available by First Step Internet,
<br>>> serving the communities of the Palouse since 1994.<br>>> <a href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</a><br>>> mailto:<a href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020@moscow.com
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