<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<META content="MSHTML 6.00.2900.2873" name=GENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Joe et al,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Your missive, well, down to your
final statement, was interesting. But, the basis for my argument
against homosexuality is biblical. (In the Bible, God condemnation of
homosexuality is pervasive.) Yet, especially for non-believers (atheists,
agnostics, etc.), further proof my reasoning is correct lies in pure common
sense, and generalizations I suppose. From fitting like a puzzle piece, anatomy,
emotionally, procreation (thus sustaining a population base), and other common
sense ills. </FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=joekc@adelphia.net
href="mailto:joekc@adelphia.net">joekc@adelphia.net</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=metzler@moscow.com
href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">Michael</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Cc:</B> <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">vision2020@moscow.com</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Sunday, April 23, 2006 7:19
AM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Crazy
Train</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Michael,<BR><BR>I think that these two questions are
interesting but that they would be very difficult to answer. Suppose that we
find out that there is some difference in behavioral practice between straight
couples and gay couples. Well that might have something to do with the fact
that the last time the gay couple went out on a date, they were physically
assaulted by a gang of Christian soldiers. <BR><BR>Our society makes it very
hard for gays and lesbians to act as "normal couples." The fact that we find
some "normal couples" among gays and lesbians anyway is amazing. We do all
that we can to prevent this from happening and until that changes we should
not try to compare couples and see if we find anything interesting.<BR><BR>As
for sexual morality in general two points come to mind. First, it is hard for
me to identify any sexual act that a gay/lesbian couple could perform yet a
straight couple could not perform. I just don't see how "homosexual activity"
could be a relevant moral category. It would be like saying that if I steal
from a woman that is OK but if I steal from a man then it is immoral. Is
"stealing from a man" a relevant moral category?<BR><BR>Condemnations of
"homosexual activity" are essentially discriminatory. I just don't see any
other way to think about it. If it is, say, oral sex that is wrong, then why
not just say this and leave the particular manifestation of the oral sex out
of it? After all, there are a lot more straights who partake in oral sex then
there are gays/lesbians who do (I'm guessing that this is true just because
there are so many more folks in the former group). But I have never seen
anyone speak in such general terms. This is an indication that whatever most
folks are doing when they talk about "homosexual activity," they are not
talking about morality. (I'm not suggesting that this is true of you,
Michael.)<BR><BR>Second, in cases of adultry we can point to some part of the
act -- the lieing, cheating part -- that is morally wrong. We can then say
adultry is wrong because lieing and cheating is wrong. Similarly with sex with
minors. Minors cannot properly consent to sexual activity and sex without
proper consent is wrong. What is it about same-sex sexual activity that makes
it wrong? And keep in mind that whatever it is it must be something that would
make the same act wrong if it were done by a straight couple.<BR><BR>Some
folks say that "homosexual activity" is "unnatural" but so is driving a car or
flying in an airplane. It just doesn't follow that everything that is
unnatural is wrong, or even that if something is unnatural that is a prima
facie reason for thinking that it is wrong. I have never seen an argument
against same-sex sexual activity that was a good one. The best one can do is
speak in vague generalizations making claims that cannot possibly be
supported, like Ed has been doing.<BR><BR>--<BR>Joe Campbell<BR><BR>----
Michael <<A href="mailto:metzler@moscow.com">metzler@moscow.com</A>>
wrote: <BR><BR>=============<BR>Tom,<BR><BR> <BR><BR>To clarify, I'm
currently interested in two things: what the actual<BR>difference in
cultural/behavioral expression really is (statistically)<BR>between current
homosexual and heterosexual practice and also whether or not<BR>homosexual
activity is defined according to some broad notions of morality<BR>to be in
any sense 'wrong.' All sexual activity is not off the radar
simply<BR>because it is sexual or private, as I'm sure you would agree; e.g.,
we might<BR>not necessarily condone some forms of adultery and we might not
dispute laws<BR>against sex with consenting minors. I also want to
distinguish the question<BR>of legal right from the question of
morality. Further, I also want to grant<BR>that if some traditions
conclude that homosexual activity is 'not good' or<BR>'wrong' this does not
entail that these traditions will approach actual<BR>homosexuals like a bunch
of arrogant fundamentalists. I do share your<BR>concerns about bigotry,
fear, feeling threatened, etc. I just don't think<BR>my particular
questions deal much with that particular problem. Hope
that<BR>helps.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR> <BR><BR> <BR><BR>That's
just it, Michael -<BR><BR> <BR><BR>You really don't
know.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>I am a male heterosexual that has been married to
his "significant other"<BR>for 33 years (come
June).<BR><BR> <BR><BR>During the course of those 33 years my significant
other and I have known<BR>several homosexual people. One was the best
man (you can take that pun any<BR>way you want) at our wedding. To
qualify his "equal entitlements under the<BR>law" by his sexual preference is
purely, and simply, intolerable.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>You see. I possess
sufficient self-confidence and do not feel threatened<BR>living in the same
state, same city, or same building with a same-sex<BR>married
couple.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>And yet another question remains: Of the
58,004 names on the Vietnam<BR>Memorial Wall, how many belong to
homosexual soldiers, sailors, airmen,
or<BR>Marines.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>Seeya round town,
Moscow.<BR><BR> <BR><BR>Tom Hansen<BR><BR>Moscow,
Idaho<BR><BR> <BR><BR> <BR><BR> <BR><BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
<A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A>
<BR> <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>