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<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>True, marriages are failing at
unprecedented rates... But, we disagree on a solution... Why not bring back a
society (and a time) that is conducive to successful marriages? Yes, the
good old days were, in fact, "good".... The divorce rate has been climbing in
proportion to the decadence in which we (not all) relish. The 3% (if this is
true--I hope not) is doing more harm than one realizes. However, other
contributing factors are also at unprecedented levels (even immigration--a
subject I won't mention for fear of opening another can of worms). Seriously, we
have become so liberal as a society that nothing is sacred, marriage, values,
etc...; nothing is frowned on anymore for fear of being called a bigot,
homophobe, sexist , or other derogatory term. We are on a road to
certain destruction if we, as a Nation, turn from our evil ways... I don't care
what people call me....I do what's in the best interest for my family and
country..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Much care...</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=ecooper@turbonet.com
href="mailto:ecooper@turbonet.com">Ed</A> ; <A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020 Moscow</A> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, April 22, 2006 12:23
PM</DIV>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [Vision2020] Crazy
Train</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ed,<BR><BR>You wrote:<BR><BR>"<FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
size=2>We need to get so serious about protecting the institution of marriage
(for the preservation of humanity). . ."</FONT><BR><BR>If your real goal was
to save the institution of marriage, why ban marriage? Would it not be more
productive to simply ban divorce?<BR><BR>If 50% of marriages end in about 5
years, and over 70% of marriages end in about 10 years, it would make the most
sense to save the most marriages by putting your efforts into banning divorce,
not denying marriages to people that cannot get married anyway.
<BR><BR>Putting huge efforts into preventing less than 3% of the marriages,
while ignoring the 70% that are failing in order to save the institution seems
like an unproductive strategy. <BR><BR>Take
Care,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><B><I>Ed
<ecooper@turbonet.com></I></B> wrote:
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<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Donovon,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>I realize that it's already illegal;
however, many are looking for the loopholes... We need to get so serious
about protecting the institution of marriage (for the preservation of
humanity) that we enact such a rigid law that we leave no room open for
even quasi-homosexual marriage, etc... </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>"Cruel and unusual
punishment"?...good point..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>And, yes, the state has far too much
power...but that's another story in itself..</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2>Ed</FONT></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com
href="mailto:donovanjarnold2005@yahoo.com">Donovan Arnold</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=ecooper@turbonet.com href="mailto:ecooper@turbonet.com">Ed</A> ;
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020 Moscow</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Saturday, April 22, 2006 1:11 AM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [Vision2020] Crazy Train</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Ed,<BR><BR>Same sex marriage is already banned in Idaho. Is
it not like banning together to make sure that Idaho uses the US dollar?
And if you hate homosexuals and the spread of disease why would you stop
homosexuals from marrying? Seems like it would punish them and slow the
spread of disease at the same time. <BR><BR>I believe that the US
Constitution banned all marriage when it forbid cruel and unusual
punishment. : )<BR><BR>And another thing. If marriage is a religious
ceremony, why is the state involved anyway? <BR><BR>Take
Care,<BR><BR>_DJA<BR><BR><B><I>Ed <ecooper@turbonet.com></I></B>
wrote:
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<DIV><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2></FONT>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>As a newcomer to the area and a recent subscriber to this group,
I have read each post, concerning the issues that face this community,
with enthusiasm and sincere interest. One issue in particular stood out
while perusing Joans entry. She mentioned, were facing a
constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage on the November
ballot.<O:P></O:P></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>I thought, wow; what better a time than now for concerned
citizens to band together and push this thing through? Why not make
amends and ally with the pastor of that church (Christs Church) to
accomplish a common goal? I see a lot of religious talk (in this forum)
as well as dialogue regarding the future of the community. Rather than
being silent on the issue, we should spread the news. This is the ideal
medium to initiate an awareness campaign. Lets save our community form
the evils that lurk. Same sex marriage today; tomorrow, theyll be
petitioning to marry mans best friend. Funny this subject should arise;
I think daily of the way the world is going, especially the
<ST1:COUNTRY-REGION w:st="on"><ST1:PLACE w:st="on">United
States</ST1:PLACE></ST1:COUNTRY-REGION>.
<O:P></O:P></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>Why oppose same sex marriage? The reasons are
endless
..<O:P></O:P></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>Daily, we see news stories that deal with acts so perverse and
extreme that we are outraged (why would those boys rape the stripper?
why does a man kidnap a young girl with the intent of eating her? Why is
the world filled with never-before-seen disease?). It seems we ignore
and tolerate the deviant behavior that leads up to these acts, so gross
until we can no longer ignore them. Nobody asks why underage men are
drinking, or why females take their clothes off for these drunken men.
Nobody questions the sexual behavior that spreads incurable diseases. We
simply witness the end effect and wonder how we have arrived at this
horrific juncture. If you dont desire the effect, you must change the
cause or root. <SPAN> </SPAN><O:P></O:P></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>Equally responsible for the decadence, our nation has turned its
back on Godeven kicking him out of the schools and courtrooms; we have
allowed every conceivable deviant behavior to be normalized and
sanitized by extremists in the name of free speech and equal rights. In
the extreme, you even hear of churches debating whether or not to allow
homosexual clergy and the like....What Bible are they
reading?</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT size=3>These are merely some of the
reasons that it is imperative that we band together on this issue;
other, more salient, ones follow. <O:P></O:P></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: rgb(34,34,34); FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT
face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT size=3>Biology, physiology,
reproduction, traditional morality, ethics, mindless denigration of the
institution of marriage, Gods law (the Bible), nature, pervasive,
incurable disease, the family, homosexual supremacy groups, loss of
masculinity, female mistreatment, not to mention the empirical
social-science evidence about what happens in societies where
homosexuality is normalized (Netherlands, Canada, and Spain for
example). <SPAN> </SPAN>If we sit idly by, we are doomed.
<O:P></O:P></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><O:P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></O:P></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>Was the naming of <I><ST1:PLACE w:st="on"><ST1:PLACENAME
w:st="on">Brokeback</ST1:PLACENAME> <ST1:PLACETYPE
w:st="on">Mountain</ST1:PLACETYPE></ST1:PLACE></I> strategic,
symbolic of how our Nations back/will has been broke by homosexual
activists? Well, neither my back nor my will has been broken
I will not
sit silently while a vocal minority imposes their disgusting perversions
on the rest of the world. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>Ed</FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3></FONT></FONT></SPAN><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"
size=2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt"><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" size=2><FONT
size=3>In a similar vein....we should refrain from the use of the word
"gay" when referring to homosexuals. The innocent word that implies
lively and spirited has been hijacked by the far left resulting in some
oxymoronic <FONT size=1><FONT
size=3>pseudonym.....</FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal">-----
Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV
style="BACKGROUND: rgb(228,228,228) 0% 50%; FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal; moz-background-clip: initial; moz-background-origin: initial; moz-background-inline-policy: initial"><B>From:</B>
<A title=joanopyr@moscow.com href="mailto:joanopyr@moscow.com">Joan
Opyr</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>To:</B>
<A title=vision2020@moscow.com
href="mailto:vision2020@moscow.com">Vision2020 Moscow</A> </DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Sent:</B>
Friday, April 21, 2006 12:34 PM</DIV>
<DIV
style="FONT: 10pt arial; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal"><B>Subject:</B>
[Vision2020] Crazy Train</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>Dear Visionaries:<BR><BR>I am done arguing with
Donovan. Perhaps not forever, but certainly for <BR>now.
If list members want to talk about water, let's talk about water.
<BR> We cannot, however, only talk about water. There's
more at stake in <BR>the future of Moscow. Smart growth, dumb
growth, and anti-growth; <BR>growth that benefits the few, not the
many. There's also urban <BR>renewal, development options, the
University of Idaho, traffic along <BR>the Miracle Mile, and parking
in the downtown retail district. As we <BR>get into issues of
cultural hegemony and differing visions of what <BR>constitutes a
healthy and diverse community, we're bound to get into <BR>sticky
territory. We're facing a constitutional amendment banning
<BR>same-sex marriage on the November ballot. I expect some
important and <BR>potentially hot debates over that. And when we
do get around to it, I <BR>warn you, Pastor You-Know-Who and his
You-Know-Church will likely serve <BR>as both the tar baby and the
briar patch. If He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named <BR>takes as active a
role in this political fight as he took in the 1994 <BR>battle over
Proposition One, then it's going to get hot in here. Might
<BR>want to open a window.<BR><BR>That said, I think it's important to
recognize that unmoderated chat <BR>groups are like the railroad
tracks in a Roadrunner cartoon. We, the <BR>list members, are
like Wile E. Coyote. We're on the train, chasing the
<BR>Roadrunner, when we look out the window and see that we're running
out <BR>of track. So, we open up the Acme box and hang out on
the engine, <BR>laying track before the train just as fast as we
can. What happens? <BR>We find ourselves halfway over a
chasm; we look down, pause, and drop, <BR>right to the bottom of a
deep canyon, where we thump to a halt in a <BR>cloud of dust.
But we always get back up again. That's the nature of <BR>this
list, and it's the nature of every other unmoderated list.
<BR>Freedom of expression is not freedom from annoyance, and if it
were, <BR>I'd be bored senseless. This is a great community, and
I'm always <BR>interested to hear what most of you have to
say.<BR><BR>It's true that my Bozo Bin is wide and deep, and that I
filter out <BR>quite a few posters, but I have relatives that I don't
like, either. I <BR>don't want to hang out with them, but I
don't think they should be <BR>tossed from the family. I still
meet up with them once a year at the <BR>family reunion, and we watch
one another eat fried chicken. (It's <BR>always too
greasy. Best to stick to the deviled eggs.)<BR><BR>Joan
Opyr/Auntie Establishment<BR><A
href="http://www.joanopyr.com">www.joanopyr.com</A><BR><BR>_____________________________________________________<BR> List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR> serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994.
<BR>
<A
href="http://www.fsr.net">http://www.fsr.net</A>
<BR> <A
href="mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com">mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com</A><BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>_____________________________________________________<BR>List
services made available by First Step Internet, <BR>serving the
communities of the Palouse since 1994. <BR>http://www.fsr.net
<BR>mailto:Vision2020@moscow.com<BR>ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ<BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
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